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1 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 1:06:25pm

This is OT, but I happened to see you mention wanting to do a point/counterpoint format to compare your articles, so I tried created a 2-column layout within a Page and it seems to work fine.

I'm not sure how it would work for you, but feel free to go over to my Testing... Page anytime and grab the code if you find it useful. You'll find the example added at the bottom.

2 Political Atheist  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 1:14:01pm

re: #1 CuriousLurker

Oh nicely done! Don't know if I can replicate it but it sure looks good. I gotta play with that a while I think.

3 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 1:31:00pm

re: #2 Political Atheist

Oh nicely done! Don't know if I can replicate it but it sure looks good. I gotta play with that a while I think.

Okay, I cleaned the code up a little and left it in my pastebin for you. It's the two columns and the paragraph that follows it. If you copy & paste it exactly as is, you should be able to tell fairly easily how to work with it by looking at the "lorem ipsum" text (the first div is the left column, the second is the right).

P.S. I added HTML comments to indicate where each column starts/ends.

4 lostlakehiker  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 1:46:49pm

Fracking is not likely to lead to major earthquakes. The real issue is will it become a permanent substitute for coal rather than a bridge fuel to wind/solar/nuclear?

Some environmentalists want to block fracking because they fear "permanent". This fear is probably the root cause of the worried talk about earthquakes, because there's no real rational basis for it.

Other environmentalists fear that without an attractive, near-term alternative to coal, coal will continue to be used in huge quantities, so much so that by the time we bring wind/solar/nuclear technical and efficiency improvements to where they can be deployed at the scale needed to replace coal, it will be too late to avoid even the worst of the impending, and already partially inevitable, global warming tragedy. Since natural gas produces half the CO2 of coal per unit of electricity generated, we buy time by substituting it for coal. Conveniently, we also avoid some number of mining fatalities and some amount of local environmental destruction into the bargain.

Strictly speaking, we could go on short energy rations now and scrape through. But politically, this seems to be just about impossible. Twice, now, we've elected a president who takes the science seriously. But not so seriously as to grasp the nettle with both hands and outlaw any use of coal. And for what? After all, the U.S. is not the only coal consumer, nor even the biggest one. We cannot hope to persuade China to abandon coal forthwith.

Mulling it all over, I find myself in the camp of go ahead and frack. It's methadone, and coal is heroin, and we can't go cold turkey. But keep up the R&D with wind/solar/nuclear. Only by plugging away at it can we advance on a broad front, learning through experience and experiment about what sort of power grid improvements we must make, how to coordinate electric power as an increasing fraction of the supply is intermittent, how to bring deployment costs down, etc.

We must also get past a number of regulatory hurdles. The failure to authorize the NV nuclear waste repository will have to be repaired. The EPA will have to be given a mandate that makes CO2 reduction an overriding priority, so that worries about bird kills or desert wildlife habitat preservation can be taken into consideration only for purposes of mitigation, but not as show-stopppers. City regulations banning the use of "unsightly" clothslines, or the deployment of "unsightly" wind turbines, need to give way. National emergencies don't allow for unlimited fussbudget obstructionism.

And we need to build a consensus. It's no good being quiet on the underlying reason for energy decisions, and trying to roll out a wind/solar/nuclear economy without general public consent. There's a lot of work to be done educating the public.

5 Political Atheist  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 2:08:41pm

re: #3 CuriousLurker

Okay, I cleaned the code up a little and left it in my pastebin for you. It's the two columns and the paragraph that follows it. If you copy & paste it exactly as is, you should be able to tell fairly easily how to work with it by looking at the "lorem ipsum" text (the first div is the left column, the second is the right).

P.S. I added HTML comments to indicate where each column starts/ends.

Hey fantastic. That I can wrap my mind around. Thank you!! Now I just gotta find the right Page to try it out. I downloaded it and saved it. LWC and I have been talking about a point/counterpoint Page to do together.

6 freetoken  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 4:10:12pm

There are so many issues intertwined here.

First off, the historian writing in the first article seems not to buy into economics. Shame. Natural gas drilling cooled down because the price of natural gas is so low in this country, as previous fracking has shown its potential and flooded the market.

However, these natural gas wells deplete, and some very quickly, so new wells will always have to be drilled.

As with all other resources, the most likely to be profitable ventures are done first, and over time lower and lower quality of resources will be left, meaning the return on drilling will go down over time.

So fracking is not a permanent solution. NO resource that depletes, and all fossil fuels are such, will ever be a long term solution for energy needs.

Then we have the global warming problem, to which natural gas contributes.

7 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 4:28:05pm

re: #6 freetoken

There are so many issues intertwined here.

First off, the historian writing in the first article seems not to buy into economics. Shame. Natural gas drilling cooled down because the price of natural gas is so low in this country, as previous fracking has shown its potential and flooded the market.

However, these natural gas wells deplete, and some very quickly, so new wells will always have to be drilled.

As with all other resources, the most likely to be profitable ventures are done first, and over time lower and lower quality of resources will be left, meaning the return on drilling will go down over time.

So fracking is not a permanent solution. NO resource that depletes, and all fossil fuels are such, will ever be a long term solution for energy needs.

Then we have the global warming problem, to which natural gas contributes.

No, fracking isn't a permanent solution, but it might be a medium-term solution. And using natural gas instead of coal would reduce the level of carbon emissions, which would be a step in the right direction.

8 hellosnackbar  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 9:46:53pm

Fracking creates a massive supply of methane which now I'm told accounts for 43% of consumption in the USA.
This should make a major contribution to the US balance of payments deficit.
There have been large discoveries in Poland and also under the Lancs. plane in the UK.


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 Frank says:

This is Frank Zappa saying, Don't do speed. Speed turns you into your parents. -- this used to play OFTEN as a public service announcement(PSA) on radio station WHFS at 102.5 FM in bethesda,MD.USA during the early '70's. it was followed by a nearly inaudible whisper, "...but grass and acid are o.k.", which may have been frank, or one of the mothers.