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1 Destro  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:01:46pm

Good. Israel's govt deserves scorn for expanding the settlements.

2 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:25:45pm

Typical. It's always the settlements, never the Hamas charter, or the terrorism Israel faces on a daily basis.

In a more perfect world, Judea and Samaria would be annexed and be made into a greater Israel. It's their land, after all.

3 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:14:34pm

re: #2 Eclectic Infidel

I read your comment earlier today and thought to just let it slide, but I've thought more and decided to dive in:

Typical. It's always the settlements, never the Hamas charter, or the terrorism Israel faces on a daily basis.

I don't know what you mean by "typical", but it appears as if you are building a straw man, one which is easily blown down. Der Spiegel has written much about Hamas:
[Link: www.google.com...]

And then this claim of yours:

In a more perfect world, Judea and Samaria would be annexed and be made into a greater Israel. It's their land, after all.

Among other things, that last statement of yours is begging the question.

And your claim of a "perfect world" is very myopic.

4 Skip Intro  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:20:18pm

Apparently this is a bot account, since the poster only posts on one topic and never responds.

5 XtremeDave  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 8:29:34pm

re: #2 Eclectic Infidel

In a more perfect world, Judea and Samaria would be annexed and be made into a greater Israel. It's their land, after all.

Ok, this would fine with me, as long as all the residents of Greater Israel have equal rights (including voting rights) as Israeli citizens. This includes Arabs living in Judea and Samaria (aka West Bank).

If you think this shouldn't be the case, then Israel immediately becomes an apartheid state. But if you grant full voting rights to Arabs living in Greater Israel, Israel will quickly cease to be a Jewish State.

6 War On Music  Fri, Dec 7, 2012 4:09:19am

re: #5 XtremeDave

Yes, I think that is a fair question: does Eclectic Infidel support the annexation of the West Bank, and if so, does he support granting full equal rights (including voting rights) to all Arab Palestinians?

7 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 7, 2012 7:15:43am

re: #4 Skip Intro

Apparently this is a bot account, since the poster only posts on one topic and never responds.

This is true. It's been long determined that 'Aigle' is a bot.

8 Buck  Fri, Dec 7, 2012 10:22:19am

re: #1 Destro

Good. Israel's govt deserves scorn for expanding the settlements.

And what do we call people who say that Jews cannot live somewhere based only on their race?

If you think that the land is disputed then you would be advocating that NO ONE be able to build and live there until the dispute is settled, OR that both sides would be allowed to build and live there.

Again, why should this area of the world be restricted from Jews?

9 Buck  Fri, Dec 7, 2012 10:26:29am

If these European commentators were in fact unbiased they would be wondering why this vote in the UN came so soon after the Arab Palestinian leadership committed war crimes.

They would be asking why the world rewarded Arab Palestinian leadership who openly advocate ethnic cleansing.

But they don't ask those questions do they?

Do you?

10 Buck  Fri, Dec 7, 2012 10:56:21am

re: #2 Eclectic Infidel

In a more perfect world, Judea and Samaria would be annexed and be made into a greater Israel. It's their land, after all.

You are correct. There is nothing in International law or history that says this land is anything except returned to the Jews. The Jews are the indigenous people. There has been a continuous Jewish presence there for more than 3000 years.

Yes in 1947 there was an offer to share the land peacefully. However that offer was rejected. The arab leaders openly-stated that their goal was not another arab independent state, but the complete destruction of the Jews on their own land. In the decades that followed, they never shown any intention to give up their fantasy of destroying tiny Israel and cleansing the land of the Jews.

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was rejected and therefore is today null and void.

What is left is the legal standing of the San Remo Conference of 1920, the British Mandate to help the Jews settle that exact land, the vote of the League of Nations in 1922, and the acceptance of that by the UN when it was formed.

International law follows what is done can not be undone.

Yes, it is that simple. Often the truth really can be simple.

There is zero legal standing for these Arab people. They were provided (and accepted) the lions share of the land, not once but twice. First when the WW 1 Allies gave the arabs land now known as Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. Then again when the British broke their mandate and gave the land returned to the Jews to create Jordan.

Not content with that enormous amount of land. They also coveted the sliver of land left. Unwilling to share they openly expressed their plan for ethnic cleansing.

Unable to steal with violence the only part of the land they were not given, they now try to change that history.

Jews are the sole legal heirs of this land. It was returned to the Jews peacefully and with the entire worlds participation in the early 20's. The title and deed to that land was transferred to the Jews specifically.

To deny this is to ignore the legal history. To deny this is to reward the people who tried (and failed) ethnic cleansing and genocide.

11 Buck  Fri, Dec 7, 2012 11:19:32am

re: #6 War On Music

Yes, I think that is a fair question: does Eclectic Infidel support the annexation of the West Bank, and if so, does he support granting full equal rights (including voting rights) to all Arab Palestinians?

Has there been anytime in history that Israel didn't grant full and equal rights to every citizen of Israel?

In fact, right now, the current Arab residents of East Jerusalem -- numbering over 350,000, or 38% of the city's total population -- already go about their daily lives, shop at Israeli malls, use Israeli services, frequent Israeli restaurants and bars, send their children to study at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and receive Israeli social and health benefits.

Yes, thousands every year are quietly applying for and obtaining Israeli passports.

More than 100,000 Palestinian refugees have returned over the decades under the terms of Israel’s family-reunification program. Arabs who lost property in Israel are eligible to file for compensation from Israel's Custodian of Absentee Property. Millions of dollars have already been paid by Israel in settlement of individual claims of lost property.

Maybe you have heard of Ismail Haniyeh? Three of his sisters enjoy full Israeli citizenship, having moved 30 years ago to the desert town of Tel Sheva. They, and all of their children have "full equal rights (including voting rights)".

You have the good guys confused with the bad guys.

Haniyeh's sisters would not have "full equal rights (including voting rights)" in Gaza.

Palestinian refugees, continue to be denied citizenship by all Arab countries except Jordan.

Despite the ethnic cleansing of Jews surrounding Arab countries did in 1947, there is no "Custodian of Absentee Property" for Jews to recover the property stolen from them.


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