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1 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 1:58:29pm

Yes, that is how he would describe "their national aspirations".

I don't have very much hope that this will help the idiots who were congratulating the Palestinian people for the vote in the UN.

It will bring them neither peace nor prosperity.

It is a step towards the Palestinian leaderships true goal of genocide.

2 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:43:40pm

re: #1 Buck

Yes, that is how he would describe "their national aspirations".

I don't have very much hope that this will help the idiots who were congratulating the Palestinian people for the vote in the UN.

It will bring them neither peace nor prosperity.

It is a step towards the Palestinian leaderships true goal of genocide.

Quite Concur. The correct answer to "free Palestine" is "With freedom comes responsibility, and the leaders the Palestinians have chosen have given no sign of using any freedom they have for any purpose other than to attack Israel and embezzle aid money".

3 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:49:27pm

Even the absolute ugliness of 'we get all the land', it's not code for 'kill all the jews'.

For fuck's sake.

4 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:55:43pm

I can understand and in fact agree with you on Hamas and the Hamas leadership. Khaled Meshaal "victory tour" is not a welcome path to peace nor a two state solution. However, trying to attach the phrase "free Palestine" as code for "kill the Jews" is a sweeping and dangerous generalization of these American protestors.

5 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:10:40pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Even the absolute ugliness of 'we get all the land', it's not code for 'kill all the jews'.

For fuck's sake.

Actually for fucks sake it is.

6 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:11:56pm

re: #4 Gus

I can understand and in fact agree with you on Hamas and the Hamas leadership. Khaled Meshaal "victory tour" is not a welcome path to peace nor a two state solution. However, trying to attach the phrase "free Palestine" as code for "kill the Jews" is a sweeping and dangerous generalization of these American protestors.

Thank you,

But history has taught us that ignoring what people who are hoping "you will go back where you came from" is even more dangerous.

7 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:17:41pm

re: #6 Buck

Thank you,

But history has taught us that ignoring what people who are hoping "you will go back where you came from" is even more dangerous.

Yeah. I remember hearing "go back where you came from" when I was a kid. To my mom or dad sometimes. It was awful.

8 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:18:23pm

re: #5 Buck

Actually for fucks sake it is.

So you think there are zero Palestinians who would like the entire territory as their state, but don't want to exterminate all Jews?

9 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:22:10pm

re: #8 Obdicut

So you think there are zero Palestinians who would like the entire territory as their state, but don't want to exterminate all Jews?

For fuck sake it doesn't matter what the Arab Palestinians think. They have no power, they have no say.

The state you refer to is not a democracy. It is a totalitarian state.

AND as demonstrated by history and the present day Arab and Muslim dictators in the UN, Free Palestine is certainly equal to Kill all the Jews.

10 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:25:06pm

re: #9 Buck

For fuck sake it doesn't matter what the Arab Palestinians think. They have no power, they have no say.

Of course it matters.

AND as demonstrated by history and the present day Arab and Muslim dictators in the UN, Free Palestine is certainly equal to Kill all the Jews.

How is that demonstrated by history, Buck?

11 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:52:30pm

re: #10 Obdicut

Of course it matters.

How does it matter? They don't have freedom of the press. They don't have a political voice of dissent. No opposition party.

Have you every seen (in Gaza or the Westbank) ANY opposition to terrorism? Any voice against suicide bombing? Any voice against slitting the throats of Jewish babies while they sleep?

How is that demonstrated by history, Buck?

Stupid question, but expected from you.

I could just point out the history of 1948 in the Arab and Muslim countries, BUT you clearly need a history lesson, Soooooooo

The history of what happened when the people only wanted to expel the Jews from Carthage, Alexandria, Diocèse of Clermont (France), Diocèse of Uzès (France), Visigoth Spain, Visigoth Empire, Italy, Sens, Mainz, France, Germany, Upper Bavaria, England, France, France (yep, again), Switzerland, Hielbronn (Germany), Saxony, Hungary, Hungary, Belgium, Slovakia, Strasbourg, Germany, France, Lyons, Austria, Fribourg, Zurich, Cologne, Savoy, Mainz, Augsburg, Netherlands, Bavaria, France, Breslau, Wurzburg, Mainz, Mainz, Warsaw, Vincenza (Italy), Spain, Italy, Lithuania, Naples, Portugal, Nuremberg, Navarre, Brandenberg, Prussia, Strasbourg, Genoa, Regensburg, Naples, Prague & Bohemia, Genoa, Bavaria, Pesaro, Prague, Austria, Prague, Wurzburg, the Papal States, Brandenburg, Netherlands, Hungary, Brandenburg, Austria, Cremona, Pavia & Lodi, Frankfort, Kiev, Ukraine, Poland, Hamburg, Little Russia (Beylorus), Lithuania, Oran (North Africa), Vienna, Sandomir, Russia, Wurtemburg, Little Russia (Beylorus), Prague, Bohemia, Moravia, Kovad (Lithuania), Bordeaux, Deported to the Pale of Settlement (Poland/Russia), Warsaw, Alsace, Villages in Russia, Villages & Countrysides (Russia), Lbeck & Bremen, Franconia, Swabia & Bavaria, Bremen, Russian Border Austria & Prussia, Areas in the U.S. under General Grant's Jurisdiction, Galatz, Romania, Moscow, Bavaria (foreign born Jews), Nazi Controlled Areas,

AND the one that is MOST relevant All of the Arab and Muslim Countries.

12 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:55:48pm

re: #11 Buck

How does it matter? They don't have freedom of the press. They don't have a political voice of dissent. No opposition party.

Because what we're talking about is people in the Bay Area sayign the phrase 'free Palestine', for one thing.

Have you every seen (in Gaza or the Westbank) ANY opposition to terrorism? Any voice against suicide bombing? Any voice against slitting the throats of Jewish babies while they sleep?

Yeah. I've seen Palestinians executed for collaboration.

And it's weird seeing you cite a large number of times when all the Jews weren't killed during an expulsion as support of your point.

13 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:10:09pm

re: #12 Obdicut

And it's weird seeing you cite a large number of times when all the Jews weren't killed during an expulsion as support of your point.

For fucks sake, how many Jews have to be killed for it to be a significant number?

For fucks sake, you are being confrontational for the sake of confrontation only.

Because what we're talking about is people in the Bay Area

For fucks sake, no we weren't.

I was responding to your "So you think there are zero Palestinians who would like the entire territory as their state, but don't want to exterminate all Jews?"

If you were talking about people in the bay area you were being really weird about it (for fucks sake).

14 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:12:11pm

And for fucks sake they don't have to succeed at killing all the Jews for it to be an attempt at it.

15 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:13:26pm

re: #13 Buck

For fucks sake, how many Jews have to be killed for it to be a significant number?

Why are you pretending that I'm arguing that Jews weren't killed during those explusions? That we're arguing over a 'significant number'?

For fucks sake, no we weren't.

Oh really?

“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” Code for “Kill the Jews.” We, those of us who stand for Israel’s right to exist in the San Francisco Bay Area, hear this every time the haters show up to bash Jews and Israel. The Palestinians voted Hamas into power and it is this reality that must be addressed by them if they are to ever be accepted as a legitimate, independent nation.

16 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:15:12pm

re: #15 Obdicut

For fucks sake, I told you I was respond to your "zero Palestinians" comment.

17 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:17:21pm

re: #16 Buck

For fucks sake, I told you I was respond to your "zero Palestinians" comment.

OKay, then you're still being your normally weird asshole self-- because you're saying what those Palestinians think or say isn't relevant.

Basically, to you, since Hamas does indeed want to kill Jews, and does want to take over all of Israel, that means that anyone saying "Free Palestine" is really saying 'death to the Jews'.

Yeah?

And you realize how ridiculous you look getting all angsty about 'for fuck's sake'? That's like something a sixth grader would do. Have some self-respect.

18 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:29:45pm

re: #17 Obdicut

, that means that anyone saying "Free Palestine" is really saying 'death to the Jews'.

Anyone supporting the goals of Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran to rid the middle east of Jews is repeating their "death to the Jews" slogan.

There is no country of Palestine. There has never been a country of Palestine. If Palestinian meant anything in 1948 it meant Jews.

Free Palestine can't mean Free Palestine, because if there were a Palestine, it is already free.

If TODAY Jews are not allowed to build homes in what the anti semites think is Palestine, and they want the whole area, from "the river to the sea" to be free of Jews, what do you think they think will happen to those 6 million Jews?

Well, history tells us that Arab leaders have at times pledged to drive the Jews into the sea as part of a victorious jihad to eradicate the Jewish state.

Now maybe you think that mean take them for swimming lessons.

Maybe you are just arguing for argument sake.

I don't think "angsty" means what you think it means.

You started your first comment on the subject with "for fucks sake". That was your fucking opener.

I just figured that is how you wanted to have this discussion.

19 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:33:11pm

Seriously, if they want the whole area, from "the river to the sea" to be free of Jews, what do they think will happen to those 6 million Jews?

Jews are clearly not going to welcome in that Freed area....

So just like 1948 in Muslim and Arab countries.... what do they think will happen to those 6 million Jews?

20 Buck  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:37:45pm

"From the River TO the sea" means what to you?

Are you that naive?

"Once they were speaking about throwing us into the sea. Nowadays they do not say that. They've become more sophisticated - self-determination for Palestinians - and they get the sympathy. But if we look at reality, it has not changed. The Arabs are Arabs, ruling over 22 states. Israel is a small state with many problems, the sea is the same sea, and the aim is the same aim: extermination of the State of Israel - even if you call it 'self-determination.'"
-Samir

David Ben-Gurion November 2, 1955: " ... and they plan, as many of them say openly, to throw us all into the sea; in simpler words, to exterminate the Jews of the Land of Israel."

21 stabby  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:27:04pm

re: #12 Obdicut

Because what we're talking about is people in the Bay Area sayign the phrase 'free Palestine', for one thing.

So when people in the Bay Area carry a sign that quotes a Palestinian slogan they're not referencing the wishes of the Palestinian movements but only the wishes that people in the Bay Area have for Palestine?

How does that work, supporting a movement:
1) without supporting its goals
2) but still not distinguishing your goals from theirs
and
3) never being willing to admit that there is any problem with their goals

If the second two apply to protesters in the Bay Area, and I'd say they do, then it's reasonable to conclude that those protestors support what the Palestinians support. No one forced them to carry those signs, they picked what movement that wanted to be associated with and how.

22 lostlakehiker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:58:25pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Even the absolute ugliness of 'we get all the land', it's not code for 'kill all the jews'.

For fuck's sake.

It is code for "kill however many it takes to win the war and dictate terms that include Palestinian military government for all of Israel." In the wake of that, the remaining Jews would be lucky to get out alive.

Mass expulsion of people is nowadays included in the word "genocide". Israel goes to war with an army that amounts, with reservists, to every able bodied adult. Recruits are inducted at Masada. To bring Israel to such a capitulation would involve killing on the order of half the nation. So yeah, it is not code for kill all. Merely half.

And what of the survivors? The victors would be looking to finish the job, lest in future centuries, Zionism might be reborn.

23 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 1:13:28am

re: #3 Obdicut

Even the absolute ugliness of 'we get all the land', it's not code for 'kill all the jews'.

For fuck's sake.

On this note, you are wrong Obdicut. What else do you suppose it could mean?

From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. Free of what? Zionists? No, Jews.

Free. Of. Jews. I don't know how you and others who down dinged this post can deny that and still look in the mirror and think, "yeah, it's just a slogan, it doesn't mean anything."

24 Varek Raith  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 3:19:51am

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Are you a Kahanist?
You sound like one.

25 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 6:36:47am

re: #23 Eclectic Infidel

On this note, you are wrong Obdicut. What else do you suppose it could mean?

From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. Free of what? Zionists? No, Jews.

Free. Of. Jews. I don't know how you and others who down dinged this post can deny that and still look in the mirror and think, "yeah, it's just a slogan, it doesn't mean anything."

"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free." indeed cannot be thought of as anything but a desire to destroy Israel. Simply "Free Palestine" might exemplify a different sentiment, but given that the people who say the latter are too often seen at events organized by people who say the former, the distinction matters less than some here think.

And to cries "Free Palestine", one might justly ask: "And then what? If after Israel withdraws its troops and security systems, the Palestinians continue to mount attacks on Israel, what will you do or say then?" I have asked that question to 'pro-Palestinian' people more than once, but I have never received a coherent answer.

26 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:16:53am

re: #24 Varek Raith

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Are you a Kahanist?
You sound like one.

You're an ignorant person, and your attempt at slandering me on LGF is a big fat fail.

Referencing that comment only exemplifies your cluelessness.

Merry Christmas Varek.

27 Locker  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:24:22am

re: #3 Obdicut

Even the absolute ugliness of 'we get all the land', it's not code for 'kill all the jews'.

For fuck's sake.

Exactly.

28 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:43:07am

It's a shame this is lost on some people, but to reiterate

Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on an inch of the land,” he told the crowds, saying he wanted the Palestinians to have all the territory that makes up modern-day Israel.

We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel, no matter how long it will take,” he said.

Emphasis mine.

The above quote IS in line with the aforementioned slogan. In other words, the organizers of the Israel and Jew bashing rallies ARE in alignment with Hamas' ideology.

Israel is a Jewish state for Jews. For Hamas this is one nation too many.

29 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 4:17:09pm

re: #28 Eclectic Infidel

It's a shame this is lost on some people, but to reiterate

Emphasis mine.

The above quote IS in line with the aforementioned slogan. In other words, the organizers of the Israel and Jew bashing rallies ARE in alignment with Hamas' ideology.

Israel is a Jewish state for Jews. For Hamas this is one nation too many.

They may attend they rally, EI, but can you at least concede that some of them don't want mass murder, they're just overly focus on "speaking up for the little guy" with the 'little guy' being the Palestinians.

30 Buck  Mon, Dec 10, 2012 9:50:12am

re: #29 Dark_Falcon

They may attend they rally, EI, but can you at least concede that some of them don't want mass murder, they're just overly focus on "speaking up for the little guy" with the 'little guy' being the Palestinians.

If one person was found in a Tea Party Rally to be saying something even slightly racist, everyone at the rally, in fact everyone in the movement was considered right of the KKK.

I think it is fair to say that anyone chanting along with the guys who are actual racists can be painted with the same brush.

31 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 10, 2012 4:02:44pm

re: #30 Buck

If one person was found in a Tea Party Rally to be saying something even slightly racist, everyone at the rally, in fact everyone in the movement was considered right of the KKK.

I think it is fair to say that anyone chanting along with the guys who are actual racists can be painted with the same brush.

So because someone else painted with an overly-broad brush, you see yourself doing the same thing as OK? Two wrongs don't make a right, Buck.

32 Buck  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 1:02:56pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

So because someone else painted with an overly-broad brush, you see yourself doing the same thing as OK? Two wrongs don't make a right, Buck.

You are not even reading what I am writing.

I am distinguishing in between the people just attending a rally where one person says something offensive AND people actually chanting the offensive slogan.

You don't see that clearly written in the post?

Two wrongs don't make a right? What is this kindergarten?


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