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1 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:53:40pm

Heller was the original DC decision. the case that relates to the states is the MacDonald case.

2 Political Atheist  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:06:46pm

*applause*
Blanket bans are out.
Now to the work of crafting a good CCW law. Not easy, but very doable. Require training in defensive violence law, safety and handling/marksmanship. Require regular (annual maybe) re certification. Reach out to the gun community for tactical instructors. They are your cadre of trainers that can certify more good instructors.

3 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:17:10pm

re: #2 Political Atheist

*applause*
Blanket bans are out.
Now to the work of crafting a good CCW law. Not easy, but very doable. Require training in defensive violence law, safety and handling/marksmanship. Require regular (annual maybe) re certification. Reach out to the gun community for tactical instructors. They are your cadre of trainers that can certify more good instructors.

Sadly, this is Illinois. Most likely the Democrats in this state will draw a law that excludes as many people as is possible, which Republicans will block from clearing the state senate. Trying to write such a law in this state is going to be a class-A clusterfuck.

4 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:29:38pm

The one we got up here finally isn't too bad. Background check, some form of training required (though it's more minimal than I'd prefer) and Shall Issue. Plus open carry stayed on the books so you don't get a BS brandishing charge for bending over too far.

My bet is they'll try for a "May Issue" ala NY or California although the current MD legal fight may nuke "May Issue" the way "No Issue" has been.

5 Political Atheist  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:09:47pm

re: #4 William Barnett-Lewis

"Shall Issue" gives gun control advocates the vapors. "May Issue" dramatically cuts the political cost of passage. But yeah, we'll see. I have been doing some research. As this percolates through state courts I can weigh in with good data on whats up.

I doubt "may issue" will fail a constitutional challenge forcing shall issue. .

6 Political Atheist  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 3:16:16pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, that would be the hard part of the work. That's okay, we have the legal weight to get it done right I think. It just takes time.

7 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 3:51:45pm

re: #6 Political Atheist

Yeah, that would be the hard part of the work. That's okay, we have the legal weight to get it done right I think. It just takes time.

Assuming that Illinois gun rights activists can make the transition from protest politics and blocking bad laws to writing a good law. It's an entirely different proposition and they'll have to keep their heads and avoid being publicly tarred as extreme.

8 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 3:59:22pm

They might do well just to do a cut and paste job of the Wisconsin law. I don't consider it perfect but with the training requirement and background check requirement it might fly better than some other options. Plus they have the ability to point up at cheeseheadistan and say there's no blood in the streets of Madison or Milwaukee.

9 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 4:26:06pm

re: #8 William Barnett-Lewis

They might do well just to do a cut and paste job of the Wisconsin law. I don't consider it perfect but with the training requirement and background check requirement it might fly better than some other options. Plus they have the ability to point up at cheeseheadistan and say there's no blood in the streets of Madison or Milwaukee.

From your lips to God's ears.

10 researchok  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 4:54:04pm

Like it or not, without sane gun laws, we'll see more of this.

And the courts, rather than the pass the buck legislators will end up defining our gun laws.

Same thing with immigration.

11 Locker  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 9:03:55am

This is all bullshit. These gun nuts are not a "well regulated militia" rather a bunch of "Real Americans carry guns, wear flag pins and hate liberals" bucket heads who's macho manhood is threatened by the thought of not having a bazooka in their coat to defend against teenagers walking and playing loud music.

Even as a former competition shooter and gun owner I would support the following:

- Complete ban on all handguns except law enforcement, licensed security companies and the military
- Banning of any and all CCW laws in favor of open carry
- Closures of any and all loopholes which allow the transfer of firearms without the proper background checks and tracking. Specifically the "private sale" exception which is blatantly flaunted at gun shows nationwide
- Massive increase in the penalties for using a gun in any crime and I do mean MASSIVE including a lifetime ban on any and all gun ownership
- Extensive and ongoing public service program to disseminate information about gun laws, gun safety and risks
- Uniform gun safety laws which carry severe penalties for improper storage of firearms, especially around children

Even using this list it's not enough. Sure would like to see this epidemic end.


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"Conducting" is when you draw "designs" in the nowhere -- with your stick, or with your hands -- which are interpreted as "instructional messages" by guys wearing bow ties who wish they were fishing.