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1 bratwurst  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 10:31:24am

The fact that a group of Serbs were behind some of the most grievous war crimes imaginable during this conflict is absolutely no excuse for war crimes committed against Serb civilians.

2 alinuxguru  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 10:43:19am

The author is making a large leap in logic, assuming that the shoddy prosecution of the UN is a direct result of "the West's" machinations. When you have people testifying to conversations that they overheard from opposite ends of the building, you are going to lose a few cases.

3 Destro  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 11:10:41am

The author is making a large leap in logic, assuming that the shoddy prosecution of the UN is a direct result of "the West's" machinations.

Damn right he is and he is damn right for it. That is exactly what is going on.

This is my favorite incident where an Albanian fighter aka murderer who blew up a bus with a remote bomb was arrested and kept in Camp Bondsteel and then while no one was looking in the biggest military base the US has in Europe he escapes somehow without anyone seeing him do it.

[Link: www.armytimes.com...]

A murder suspect escaped May 14 from U.S. Army captivity in Kosovo as fighting escalated along the Serbian province’s borders.
Florim Ejupi, a Kosovar Albanian, escaped in the early hours from the detention facility at Camp Bondsteel, the Army’s base camp in eastern Kosovo, according to a statement issued by the U.S.-led Multinational Brigade (East) that day.

He was being held in connection with the Feb. 15 bombing of a bus carrying Serbs in Pudejevo. The United Nations Mission in Kosovo police force (UNMIK-P) transferred Ejupi to Bondsteel on May 3.

Ejupi was reported missing after he was absent for the facility’s accountability check at 4:15 a.m. He was last seen at a similar check two hours before.

It is unclear how Ejupi escaped, and Brig. Gen. Kenneth Quinlan, the commander of the multinational brigade, has ordered an investigation into the incident, said brigade spokesman Maj. Jim Marshall.

In the meantime, the brigade has increased security at the detention facility, which has 107 detainees and is run by the 530th MP Company, an Army Reserve unit based in Nebraska, Marshall said.

as a follow up:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The Podujevo bus bombing was an attack on a civilian bus in a Serb-populated area near the town of Podujevo in Kosovo on 16 February 2001. Orchestrated by ethnic Albanians, the bombing killed twelve Serb civilians who were travelling to the Gračanica monastery and injured dozens more.

Five Albanian men were arrested for the attack,[3] but they were not charged with anything. Four men were later suspected of committing the attack, but they escaped from a U.S. detention facility in 2002 and have not since been charged with any crime. One Albanian, Florim Ejupi, was convicted in 2008 of planting the bomb and sentenced to 40 years in prison. However, he was released on 13 March 2009.

It's good to have Sam as your Uncle.

4 alinuxguru  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 1:13:18pm

re: #3 Destro

You have your own little Benghazi-gate going on here. Ejupi is free because of Obama's lax military deployment in Kosovo. /

5 Destro  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 1:20:24pm

re: #4 alinuxguru

You have your own little Benghazi-gate going on here. Ejupi is free because of Obama's lax military deployment in Kosovo. /

Nope, never said that. I actually think America's State Dept is its own kingdom with long term goals carried out by salarymen and American foreign policy in certain cases like these does not change from admin to admin.

It is in American foreign policy where I see no change (sometimes tweaks of change) no matter who is in the President's office.

6 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 3:31:51pm

Crying about the Serbs while lambasting the UN and the State Department??
Rodan, how did you hack Destro's account?


Seriously, Destro, you sound exactly like Rodan writing that shit.

7 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 5:11:54pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Bingo.

You think someone like this Galloway-esque nut would be familiar with the concept of blowback.

When you commit, or attempt to commit Genocide, the blowback is going to be absolutely tremendous.

Or to put it simply, if you don't want to be ethnically cleansed, don't try to annihilate your neighbors. Again, he should read up on the Serbian Rape Camps.

I am quite willing to admit that I think a bit like Biden on this. I really don't care what the Bosnians, Croatians, and Albanians want to do with their former oppressors.

Again, all Destro proves to me is he is a "Revolutionary" tool. Don't see him speaking out against the much worse crimes the Serbs did. He is quite willing to turn a blind eye to massive genocides if it means bashing "The West" or its allies.

8 Destro  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 5:17:16pm

re: #7 ProGunLiberal

really don't care what the Bosnians, Croatians, and Albanians want to do with their former oppressors.

What a scumbag you are in excusing genocide if your pet wogs do it. It did not matter that the Croatians, Bosniaks and Albanians brought out their Nazi era battle flags to finish off the Serbs their Nazi collaborating grandparents did not get a chance to.

9 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 7:25:35pm

re: #8 Destro

"Pet wogs"?! Apparently its open racism now that you're angry. Seriously, Destro, that's a truly shitty thing to say.

10 Destro  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 7:36:19pm

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

I know you right wingers don't get nuances - I was calling ProGunLiberal on his racist views for openly cheering mass murder of Southern European Slavs (I am not of that ethnic group so it is not personal with me) as long as the killers are America's favored ethnics du jour.

11 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 8:05:34pm

re: #8 Destro

I can call such total bullshit on the Nazis and Bosnia/Kosovo. The Nazis had a rough time trying to recruit from the Bosnians, and a Quarter-Million of them died at the hands of the Nazis and the Ustashe. And the Albanians did not cooperate with the Nazis, especially on the Holocaust. Any of our Jewish members here will tell you what the Albanians did there.

And that is so grossly insulting to the Albanians doubly, as they suffered 2 genocides in the 20th Century from the Serbians. Somewhere between a sixth to a third of the Albanian Population was annihilated in the year or two before the First World War. Proportionately, one of the Worst Genocides in Human History.

I am truly pissed you essentially called the Albanians and Bosnians Nazis.
And Serbia still hasn't learned. They demand Kosovo back, even though their actions caused the Kosovar Albanians to want to leave in the first place, the Republika Srpska has often denied the existence of the Srebrenica Massacre, there continue to be Serbian claims on portions of Croatia, and there is high (majority+) approval of war criminals like Radovan Karadzic in the nation.

Those three have every reason to be pissed as hell at Serbia. And it is likely there will be another war, as Republika Srpska, a Serbian puppet state, will attempt to secede, despite the fact they appropriated the land the cleansed out Bosnians and Croatians. The counter-purge occurred as backlash to the first aggressive action. And I see no reason to hold those three back when Serbia will foolishly try to annex RS. They have gone through a hell so massive in my lifetime, I will never understand.

And strangely, Scandinavia (though, in Sweden's case, it seems to be a personal grudge) seems to be in the same league as me on this. The nations who tend to advocate for do political imprisonment, and other such disgusting actions.

And as for the Croatians, I think the hell they went through when I was a toddler to first grader was more than equaling the score. Especially as their were Serbs collaborating with the Nazis as well.

The fact you called the Albanians and Bosnians Nazis truly pisses me off. Shows your true colors there, one who is quite willing to ignore 2 genocides, but whines when there is an inevitable backlash.

12 mr.JA  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 4:51:28am

Hmm, I thought I wrote a reply, but either it is gone or deleted...

re: #11 ProGunLiberal

Have you even been to Serbia, Bosnia, Republika Serbska or Croatia? I've visited quite a few of these countries, regularly, spoken to their people, and I cannot find relationship between what you're saying and what I've experienced over there. (My wife is Serbian, I'm Dutch btw)

RE the Nazi's in WW2 - I hate to break it to you, but the Croatians were in full support of Hitler, they had their own concentration camps, highly anti-Semitic, etc etc. There were collaborators with the Nazi's in every single European country, so that's not an argument. Besides, none of the current European countries uses the flag that was installed during the Nazi-era anymore, apart from... Croatia.

And surely, to understand why the Serbs are so attached to Kosovo, you should understand the history of the country a little more. They were 500 years under the rule of the Turks, who ruled with lots of cruelty and bloodshed. The day that the Turks broke the Serbian defence lines and started their 500 year rule, is still a national holiday in Serbia. If you don't understand how history in that part of the world works, don't try to comment on it, but visit the place, talk to the people, and try to understand.

Over its history, Belgrade was under siege 38 times. Vojvodina was 'aquired' by Hungary. Now, due to mass-immigration from Albania to Kosovo, Kosovo should get its own status? And then what should happen with the Serbs that are living in Kosovo? I'm sure that they will get a rough deal out of this, and it will just lead to more mass migration.

You seem to completely ignore that there were war crimes commited by all parties during the war, but only because of the well-documented Screbenica debacle, the Serbs got all the bad attention. 300,000 Serbs had to leave their homes from Bosnia and Croatia and flee back to Serbia, those people had to leave everything behind, and didn't even have a passport or anything. My grandfather-in-law is only alive because he has a Croatian-sounding name, in those villages people just went 'round houses and shot everyone who was thought to be Serb.

However, all the hate that you seem to portrait from the Bosniaks and Croats is a false image. I've been with Serbs to Sarajevo, and had a tour around the city by some Bosniak (muslim) tours. We went to cafes, and they spoke and ordered in their Serbian accent. We even went out, talked to the local people, and no issues at all.
When (Dutch) colleagues of mine went to my wedding, they also visited Sarajevo. They stayed in a small pension ran by some Muslim bosniaks. Those people showed the bullet holes in their house, which were still visible. My colleagues asked 'so, do you hate the Serbs then?' The answer was 'no, they're ok. It was not their decision, but of their leaders. I don't hold any of the current generation responsible for what happened.'

Now, that is a seriously more grown-up altitude to have about war then most European countries have about WW2 and Germany, if I'm honest...

13 Destro  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 8:54:49am

re: #11 ProGunLiberal

re: #12 mr.JA

To "progunliberal", you damn well know the Croatians re-encarnated their Nazi govt symbols - if not then shame on you for being so ignorant and inserting yourself into the conversation - Bosnians were led by a Muslim fundamentalist whose govt had relations with al-Qaeda (if you bothered to read the NYT op-ed you would see 2 of the hijackers were former veterans of the Islamist jihadist brigades that fought for the Bosnian Muslim side). You mentioned the Serb atrocities but the fact that Muslims went around beheading people and videotaping it and circulating the tapes (you can find them online and were made public as part of a bust of jihadis) escapes you.

As for the Albanians, the tales of Albanian gangsters who run that "country" murdering Serbs for organ donors must have escaped you - or if it did you could care less I bet.

All sides in the break up of Yugoslavia were guilty - yes equally guilty of atrocities but the American/Western allies are deemed less guilty than the Serbs even when evidence against them is overwhelming - they get off on technicalities.

14 ProMayaLiberal  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 4:17:40pm

re: #12 mr.JA

Yes, the Croatians did do that in WW2. And they ended up getting the blow back in the early 90's.

In addition, you mention the Serbs forced out of their homes at the end of Operation Storm. That was at the end of the war. After the Serbs did the same (and quite literally much worse) to the Bosnians. So, the Bosnians should accept being purged and the rape camps, and not be angry at the Serbians?

I am in lockstep with Biden on this region.

And BS on Kosovo. Kosovo was actually pulled away from Albania during the previously mentioned pre-WWI Genocide. You are siding with the Genociders. The Albanians have quite a long history in Kosovo.

How does it feel to be siding with Pamela Geller, by the way?

15 ProMayaLiberal  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 4:24:00pm

re: #13 Destro

Much smaller in scale. I judge based on scale.

Who nation committed Genocide 3 times during the 20th Century.

Essentially, you two are saying the Bosnians and Kosovars should have rolled over let them themselves be purged.

Again, after reading so many news stories, I have Biden's attitude on this. Every story I read makes me angrier.

And, if you notice, Bosnia is fact quite moderate. For all their efforts, the fanatics failed to get anything more than a toehold.

Again, to Destro now, how does it feel to side with Pamela Geller?

16 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 6:07:12pm

re: #13 Destro

Typical Destro: The parties most identified with the USA are evil and those who are America's enemies are good.

Hey Destro, try rooting for your own side once in a while!

17 Destro  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 8:47:15pm

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

Typical Destro: The parties most identified with the USA are evil and those who are America's enemies are good.

Hey Destro, try rooting for your own side once in a while!

The side America was on was its own which is why the USA was allied with jihadis during the Soviet era in Afghanistan and now is fighting our former allies there. Americans are retards that way.

18 Destro  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 8:51:44pm

re: #15 ProGunLiberal

Much smaller in scale. I judge based on scale.

Who nation committed Genocide 3 times during the 20th Century.

That would be Turkey? (Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians)

And the scale indicates the Serbs were the bigger victims (more of them were ethnic cleansed than they ethnic cleansed) by Croatian neonazis (which is what they were under Tudjman), Bosnian Islamists (which is what they were under Izebegovic) and Albanian narco-terrorists (Which is what the Albanians were and still are under their president Commander Snake).

19 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 14, 2012 5:43:19am

re: #18 Destro

Coming up next: Destro defends 'Arkan' and his 'Tigers' in their murder of Bosnians and Albanians.

Seriously Destro, it sounds like you're leading up to this.

20 mr.JA  Fri, Dec 14, 2012 7:26:17am

re: #14 ProGunLiberal

First, I'm not siding with ms. Geller, since I've not proclaimed that the Serbian war criminals are in fact heroes. Quite the opposite, I think it is good and justified that these guys were arrested and put in jail. So please, stop the name calling and have a civilized debate. I never compared you to anyone, so please return the favour if you will.

However, that other guys, also guilty of war crimes get away because they threatened witnesses is absolutely despicable, and (justly) creates a lot of anger in Serbia. You're not really helping the region by stigmatizing one group of war crimes, but letting other guys go.

Serbs were purged from their homes in Croatia, where they lived in majority, so now in Kosovo, where there is a majority of muslims/albanians/kosovarians (I throw them on one heap now, which is incorrect and goes beyond the sensitivities in that area, but I disgress), it is to purge the Serbs from a region where they have always lived, and was taken-away by the Turks and subsequently populated with Albanians.
That sounds like a raw deal to me.

Also, although the current Serb government is not optimal either, is the Kosovo government dodgy as fuck. Lots of talk about organ-trafficking, and the worst maffia in the world. Not really 'decent' people, far from it...

Again, I urge you to visit the region and speak to the people there, it might open your eyes a little. It's a good thing to do. The people are incredibly friendly, and will go out of their way to be the best hosts they can. Hope you're not a vegetarian though.

21 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 14, 2012 9:31:40am

re: #20 mr.JA

First, I'm not siding with ms. Geller, since I've not proclaimed that the Serbian war criminals are in fact heroes. Quite the opposite, I think it is good and justified that these guys were arrested and put in jail. So please, stop the name calling and have a civilized debate. I never compared you to anyone, so please return the favour if you will.

However, that other guys, also guilty of war crimes get away because they threatened witnesses is absolutely despicable, and (justly) creates a lot of anger in Serbia. You're not really helping the region by stigmatizing one group of war crimes, but letting other guys go.

Serbs were purged from their homes in Croatia, where they lived in majority, so now in Kosovo, where there is a majority of muslims/albanians/kosovarians (I throw them on one heap now, which is incorrect and goes beyond the sensitivities in that area, but I disgress), it is to purge the Serbs from a region where they have always lived, and was taken-away by the Turks and subsequently populated with Albanians.
That sounds like a raw deal to me.

Also, although the current Serb government is not optimal either, is the Kosovo government dodgy as fuck. Lots of talk about organ-trafficking, and the worst maffia in the world. Not really 'decent' people, far from it...

Again, I urge you to visit the region and speak to the people there, it might open your eyes a little. It's a good thing to do. The people are incredibly friendly, and will go out of their way to be the best hosts they can. Hope you're not a vegetarian though.

I'm not going to 'cry tears' for the Serbs, but they are as human as the Croats and Bosnians and they ought not to be driven from their home because their previous generation of leaders were a bunch of murderous shitheads.

22 Destro  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 12:05:09am

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Coming up next: Destro defends 'Arkan' and his 'Tigers' in their murder of Bosnians and Albanians.

Seriously Destro, it sounds like you're leading up to this.

Rembember whan jihadis and Americans were on the same side, good times. Good times.....


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 Frank says:

You wouldn't know a revolution if it bit you on the dick. -- In response to a young crowd member continually shouting "Revolution" between songs at a late 60's gig. The gig was at Middle Earth in Indianapolis, Indiana.