Pages

6 comments

Jump to bottom
1 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 2, 2013 7:55:06am

Let them hole up in fortresses. We've got bunker-busters that'll crack anything they build open like an egg. They want to mass their forces in a place where we can kill them? So much the better, as we'll kill 'em quicker.

2 Destro  Wed, Jan 2, 2013 8:46:35am

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

Let them hole up in fortresses. We've got bunker-busters that'll crack anything they build open like an egg. They want to mass their forces in a place where we can kill them? So much the better, as we'll kill 'em quicker.

Have you seen how big N. Mali is?

In any case, this is a classic case of blowback from the west's overthrowing a tamed Qaddafi via armed force. They resulting war led to arms and lawlessness moving into Mali as the Qadaffi regime armed Tuareg rebels there who then joined up with al-Qaeda (and were kicked aside).

3 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 2, 2013 11:14:24am

re: #2 Destro

Have you seen how big N. Mali is?

In any case, this is a classic case of blowback from the west's overthrowing a tamed Qaddafi via armed force. They resulting war led to arms and lawlessness moving into Mali as the Qadaffi regime armed Tuareg rebels there who then joined up with al-Qaeda (and were kicked aside).

We seem to have a reasonable amount of HUMINT there and that plus air recon can be used to find their hiding places. It's a big area, yes, but that kind of hunt is something the US is actually pretty good at. And they very fact that such fortresses are being built is ultimately good, because their purpose is purely military and they aren't near civilians. That means we can destroy such an installation without worrying about killing innocent civilians.

Moreover, this had less to do with Libya than Mali. If Mali's army had not staged a coup then abdicated its responsibility to its citizens then Al Qaeda would not have been able to take over. Moreover, Gaddafi didn't have to arm the Tuaregs, and play 'ethnic divide and conquer'. He could have been an honest ruler instead. I don't think today's France (for France was the driving force behind action in Libya and is again in Mali) should be blamed for Gaddafi using the sort of tactics the British used in India back in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

4 Destro  Wed, Jan 2, 2013 12:32:22pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Moreover, this had less to do with Libya than Mali. If Mali's army had not staged a coup then abdicated its responsibility to its citizens then Al Qaeda would not have been able to take over.

The article like most western articles that deal in foreign policy get their facts wrong.

The coup happened AFTER The Mali rebels, freshly armed with Libyan arms (either looted or handed over by Qaddafi to Taureg rebels) defeated the regular Mali army. In anger that the Malian army was being neglected they staged a coup (or more than likely the generals fearing being fired for failing to stop the rebel advance chose to take out the president before hand).

I always wonder if such western news disinfo is on purpose or due to incompetence.

5 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 2, 2013 7:02:42pm

re: #4 Destro

Moreover, this had less to do with Libya than Mali. If Mali's army had not staged a coup then abdicated its responsibility to its citizens then Al Qaeda would not have been able to take over.

The article like most western articles that deal in foreign policy get their facts wrong.

The coup happened AFTER The Mali rebels, freshly armed with Libyan arms (either looted or handed over by Qaddafi to Taureg rebels) defeated the regular Mali army. In anger that the Malian army was being neglected they staged a coup (or more than likely the generals fearing being fired for failing to stop the rebel advance chose to take out the president before hand).

I always wonder if such western news disinfo is on purpose or due to incompetence.

I'm going to make a counter argument, using this piece from strategypage.com. Kindly read it over and tell me what you think.

6 Destro  Fri, Jan 4, 2013 12:01:09pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to make a counter argument, using this piece from strategypage.com. Kindly read it over and tell me what you think.

[Link: www.bostonglobe.com...]

US inadvertently creates a terrorist haven in Mali

By Stephen Kinzer | JULY 15, 2012

This catastrophe did not “just happen.” It is the direct result of an episode that may at first seem unrelated: the US-led intervention in Libya last year. Rarely in recent times has there been a more vivid example of how such interventions can produce devastating unexpected results.

Under the regime of Moammar Khadafy, who was killed during the Libyan war, a portion of the army was made up of Tuaregs. They are a nomadic people whose traditional homeland is centered in northern Mali. After Khadafy was deposed, they went home — armed with potent weaponry they brought from Libya. Seeking to press their case for a homeland in Mali, they quickly overran the lightly armed Malian army.

Into this upheaval stepped another group, shaped not by ethnicity but by devotion to an extreme form of Islam. It has attracted Al Qaeda militants from many countries, including Nigeria, Pakistan, Somalia, and Algeria. They seek to create a pure Muslim state — and are destroying mosques and Islamic monuments that they believe represent the wrong kind of Islam.

This is an emerging crisis that could engage the world for years. A vast region has fallen out of the control of central government and into the hands of violent radicals. They may cause far more death and suffering than Khadafy ever did.

Four officials in Washington pressed hard for intervention in Libya last year and managed to persuade President Obama that it was necessary to avoid a humanitarian disaster. When the four of them — Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Ambassador to the United Nation Susan Rice, and two staff members at the National Security Council, Samantha Power and Gayle Smith — decided to lobby for this intervention, did they consider the possible consequences?

It is tempting to imagine that the four knew about the role of Tuaregs in Khadafy’s army, understood that the Tuaregs would return to Mali if Khadafy were overthrown, and realized that this would throw a swath of North Africa into chaos. It is also unlikely. Americans rarely consider the possible negative consequences of foreign interventions.

ntervening violently in the politics of another country is like releasing a wheel at the top of a hill: you have no idea how it will bounce or where it will end up. Perhaps it is too much to expect that well-meaning amateurs like the “gang of four” who pushed the United States into war in Libya would know enough about the country to understand what the consequences of their action might be. It should at least be possible, however, to hope that policy planners would recognize their ignorance. A dose of humility might lead them to realize that military intervention always produces unforeseen consequences.

The American-led intervention in Libya may have given Al Qaeda one of its greatest triumphs since 9/11. This is especially sobering as the United States contemplates a military attack on Iran or Syria. Overwhelming military power guarantees short-term victory in these interventions.

No amount of weaponry, however, can prevent the devastating “blowback” that often follows. The suffering people of Mali are the latest to learn this tragic lesson.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

TwitterFacebook

Turn off all ads for a full year by subscribing!
For about 33 cents a day (per month) or 22 cents a day (per year), our subscription option turns off all advertisements at LGF!
Read more...

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Articles

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Pages

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form
LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.

Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
Aye Pod
Scots voting no to independence would be an astonishing act of self-harm
Great piece by George Monbiot. To vote no is to choose to live under a political system that sustains one of the rich world's highest levels of inequality and deprivation. This is a system in which all major parties are ...

1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Views: 56 • Comments: 4
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Randall Gross
Merrill Shapiro Joins Lawsuit Against Rick Scott
A Flagler County resident who heads the local branch of the State Democratic Progressive Caucus of Florida and the board of trustees of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has joined a lawsuit against Governor Rick Scott ...

2 hours, 28 minutes ago
Views: 64 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 0
Dr. Matt
Angry Ram Takes Down a Drone…and its Owner
From the youtube page of Buddhanz1: I was looking for the angry ram with my fpv quadcopter, I got a bit close & he managed to hit it knocking it into a bush, luckily no harm done. When I went ...

5 hours, 6 minutes ago
Views: 151 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 1
Hyped Up On Ganja
Lindsay Lohan reveals she’s voting for Mitt Romney because ‘employment is really important’
Asked to expound on her comment, Miss Lohan giggled, and replied "Wingnut Mormons are so $$#@#$ hawt and junk" / But this was not the first time the fledgling political pundit has jumped into the presidential twitter fray. In early ...

1 day, 8 hours ago
Views: 251 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Souliren
Natalie MacMaster
2 days, 6 hours ago
Views: 149 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
The War TARDIS
Doctor Who “Into the Dalek” Open Thread
This episode will echo old Dalek episodes, both with a bit of a twist. Also, Clara will be finding someone, as she seems to be moving from her feelings of the 11th. But, this for talking.

3 days, 7 hours ago
Views: 314 • Comments: 42
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 5
FemNaziBitch
Roger Goodell: ‘I Didn’t Get It Right.’ -NFL TAKES A NEW STANCE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell admits he was wrong on the Ray Rice decision, and Goodell took an important step Thursday towards showing the league is serious about cracking down on domestic violence as well as sexual assault. In a ...

4 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 279 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 4
sagehen
Doctor Who Spoiler Thread
For those who want to post immediately... live... without having to hide spoilers behind the button.

1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 716 • Comments: 99
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 6
EiMitch
Escapist: Maniac Cop
escapistmagazine.com Link broken? The gist is that this is an impressively sarcastic review of an old slasher flick based on the "unrealistic" premise of a cop abusing his power to murder people.

1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 538 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Rightwingconspirator
A Lizard’s Regenerating Tail
Don't ya hate it when that happens? You feel so short for a month. Anoles are curious little lizards capable of ditching their tails when they feel threatened. This self-amputation, called autotomy, takes about 25 days for the tail to ...

1 week, 5 days ago
Views: 544 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 5
 Frank says:

Producing satire is kind of hopeless because of the literacy rate of the American public. -- A quote in response to criticism of "Jewish Princess" ("People" magazine, circa 1979)