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1 researchok  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 12:25:27pm

Non lethal (with a few rare exceptions).

Human nature dictates man will defend himself. That is as a good a way as any.

2 Bulworth  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 12:42:59pm

I’m not sure who is advocating taking away all guns.

3 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 12:50:01pm

Surefire has a very powerful strobe flashlight I’ve been thinking about purchasing for a while now.

I’ve been kinda holding out for my Star-Trek Civilian Phaser with only the Stun setting.

I commend your rationality in posing the question. Why don’t we offer civilians an alternative? One might think the Firearms industry with all their tech geeks could come up with something. But I guess that would be like the Auto Industry coming up with hover cars (or green-energy cars for that matter).

Short-term profits and emotional investment in the status-quo seem to blind the imagination to long-term profits and future corporate viability.

4 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 1:06:01pm

The people who would benefit from this option are not having the other option taken away from them.

Promoting the idea that people are safer if they have a gun in the house is part of the problem. A taser in the house could be just as bad, or it could be worse. How many guns are turned on household members? How much more frequent would it be if it were a ‘non-lethal’ weapon?

There are other options, my point is we need to look at them all to provide a positive alternative to the gun.

How about ‘no gun’ as an alternative to a gun? Look at the other causes of insecurity in the home. Is the neighborhood that bad? Why? Are the police inadequate? What can be done about that? Are felons who have served their time being released without any education, rehabilitation, jobs, or hope? Or being incarcerated for something harmless in the first place?

You mentioned a heightened need for security because of the work you do. Does everyone in that field feel that way? How many are armed?

5 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 1:21:40pm

re: #4 wrenchwench

The threat people in my field face (not merely feel) is dealt with in many ways. Each makes their own choice. Gun are very common in places that make jewelry and in independent stores.

Big franchises like Zales stores already have armed protection, the mall security guards.

One example is Lance Thompson, the LA area retail jeweler and Rolex dealer. He was in four gunfights in his store over a fairly short time, maybe a two years. He never fired first, was wounded twice and 5 armed gang members that tried to kill him are dead at his hand in his store. Poor guy was run out of business by the ongoing attacks. The gang kept coming back for revenge. To revenge their murderous brethren.

6 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 2:46:15pm

re: #5 Political Atheist

The threat people in my field face (not merely feel) is dealt with in many ways. Each makes their own choice. Gun are very common in places that make jewelry and in independent stores.

Big franchises like Zales stores already have armed protection, the mall security guards.

One example is Lance Thompson, the LA area retail jeweler and Rolex dealer. He was in four gunfights in his store over a fairly short time, maybe a two years. He never fired first, was wounded twice and 5 armed gang members that tried to kill him are dead at his hand in his store. Poor guy was run out of business by the ongoing attacks. The gang kept coming back for revenge. To revenge their murderous brethren.

I remember that story. Ultimately it became clear to him that it was either ‘leave here or die here’. The gang in question could not back off (given the predatory world of gangs) and eventually one of them would get lucky. In the end, he left when he could do no more.

7 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 3:18:45pm

re: #5 Political Atheist

The threat people in my field face (not merely feel)

Meant no offense there, but I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the difference between how people feel about their situation versus actual reality (more in regards to bike safety than gun safety, but the two are starting to merge in my mind.)

One example is Lance Thompson, the LA area retail jeweler and Rolex dealer. He was in four gunfights in his store over a fairly short time, maybe a two years. He never fired first, was wounded twice and 5 armed gang members that tried to kill him are dead at his hand in his store. Poor guy was run out of business by the ongoing attacks. The gang kept coming back for revenge. To revenge their murderous brethren.

Guns may have kept him from being killed, but others died, and he couldn’t save his business with guns. Is this where my other suggestions might come into play?

8 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 3:20:11pm

Oddly enough:

Frank says:

Star Wars won’t work. Star Wars won’t work. The gas still gets through; it could get right on you. And what about those germs, now? Star Wars won’t work.

9 blueraven  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 3:43:01pm

I dont see any legislation being proposed to take away anyone’s right to own a gun. Or take away CCW.

All I have heard is there should be regulations in place so that
All gun purchases are subject to background check
A national database
Possible ban for manufacture of AW and high capacity clips
Perhaps tests and or training required to purchase a gun
More buyback programs


This should be in conjunction with better mental health care. A huge campaign on gun safety, much like MADD started on drunk driving with gun safety awareness PSAs.

This has to be part of the dialogue going forward. 30 years ago drunk driving was much more prevalent and acceptable. We have to do the same with gun safety and gun violence issues.

10 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 4:17:47pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

Meant no offense there, but I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the difference between how people feel about their situation versus actual reality (more in regards to bike safety than gun safety, but the two are starting to merge in my mind.)

Guns may have kept him from being killed, but others died, and he couldn’t save his business with guns. Is this where my other suggestions might come into play?

The reality is the average Joe faces a minor chance of attack. But there are many who certainly face a far higher risk, so I say there is a proportion worth noting there. Lance never shot anyone not trying to kill him. That fact get’s lost by his critics, who include the grieving families of the dead.

The no gun option is an important choice that is right for most of us. But I must tell you about my relative who was killed in his store. he went with the no gun option. Robbers came in, made him open the safe. Then they hit him with a sap, and then stabbed the semi or unconscious elderly man to death. It still brings tears to me that they killed so wantonly. I got all my information from the Detectives.

I had not brought this up before, a bit too personal-but I really wanted to be open with you on this. I regard you very highly among the Lizardim. The mans name was Marshall Adams. Marshall Adams Jewelry, San Bernardino, Ca.

[Link: www.clpex.com…]

11 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 4:30:43pm

re: #9 blueraven

I dont see any legislation being proposed to take away anyone’s right to own a gun. Or take away CCW.

All I have heard is there should be regulations in place so that
All gun purchases are subject to background check
A national database
Possible ban for manufacture of AW and high capacity clips
Perhaps tests and or training required to purchase a gun
More buyback programs

This should be in conjunction with better mental health care. A huge campaign on gun safety, much like MADD started on drunk driving with gun safety awareness PSAs.

This has to be part of the dialogue going forward. 30 years ago drunk driving was much more prevalent and acceptable. We have to do the same with gun safety and gun violence issues.

I agree with all you said. California law allows me CCW. LAPD has denied it to me on specious legal grounds three times. I even went to the Police Commission to make my case. I put two whole kilos of pure gold on the podium for them to see to make the reality of my case apparent. You should have seen all those eyes of officialdom buggging out.

12 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 5:38:30pm

re: #11 Political Atheist

I agree with all you said. California law allows me CCW. LAPD has denied it to me on specious legal grounds three times. I even went to the Police Commission to make my case. I put two whole kilos of pure gold on the podium for them to see to make the reality of my case apparent. You should have seen all those eyes of officialdom buggging out.

Maybe you should bring Glenn Beck with you next time. Let them see the kind of freaks who obsess over gold and maybe they’ll see why you need to defend yourself.

As for CCW, I really think ‘shall issue’ is the way to go, but the ‘shall issue’ only happens after significant training time and a background check.

13 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jan 9, 2013 5:50:43pm

Well, the NRA thinks a baseball bat or a knife is in the same category as guns. After all, all of them are just inanimate objects.

14 Varek Raith  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:09:15am

Well, you can start by not having strawman posts like this one.

Want People to Not Have Guns For Defense?

Who? I see talk of certain types of guns. You want to misleadingly characterize this as ‘all guns’ when it is not.

That really lessens your argument and hurts your cause.

15 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 7:06:46pm

re: #14 Varek Raith

Well, you can start by not having strawman posts like this one.

Who? I see talk of certain types of guns. You want to misleadingly characterize this as ‘all guns’ when it is not.

That really lessens your argument and hurts your cause.

So many want people to go with the “no gun” option instead of a gun. Randall and his 41x point. It’s so problematic to have one at all by this view. So I chose to address that specific point of view. Kinda sucks if that simple effort is so easily misread.

16 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:22:28pm

The Supreme Court’s decision that the ownership of firearms is an individual right is NOT a blanket ‘license to kill’.

WTF?

17 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:06:40am

re: #13 Achilles Tang

Well, the NRA thinks a baseball bat or a knife is in the same category as guns. After all, all of them are just inanimate objects.

The NRA is so wrong so often. Actually that is why I’m prolific here on the subject. They sure don’t speak for me, and if that poll was right they speak in disagreement with most of their own membership.

re: #16 FemNaziBitch

The Supreme Court’s decision that the ownership of firearms is an individual right is NOT a blanket ‘license to kill’.

WTF?

Where did some fool say that it is? *sigh* The angry voices are the loud ones.

18 Destro  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 12:02:45pm

re: #4 wrenchwench

The people who would benefit from this option are not having the other option taken away from them.

Promoting the idea that people are safer if they have a gun in the house is part of the problem. A taser in the house could be just as bad, or it could be worse. How many guns are turned on household members? How much more frequent would it be if it were a ‘non-lethal’ weapon?

How about ‘no gun’ as an alternative to a gun? Look at the other causes of insecurity in the home. Is the neighborhood that bad? Why? Are the police inadequate? What can be done about that? Are felons who have served their time being released without any education, rehabilitation, jobs, or hope? Or being incarcerated for something harmless in the first place?

You mentioned a heightened need for security because of the work you do. Does everyone in that field feel that way? How many are armed?

The problem is LICENSING!

Because the right wing is paranoid as hell that registering weapons owners will lead to Soviet style round ups or some such lunacy.

If you own a gun you should be mandated to attend a - pick a frequency - monthly? Bi Monthly? firearms afety course and submit your guns to a licensed gunsmith to certify your weapons are safe to fire as intended. Additionally, you must pass mental and physical exam (eyesight) to show that you can continue to own and operate such a weapon. Throw in x # hours at a private shooting target center to maintain ability.

Do all those things, and the rights of gun owners would not be violated and we may see a decline in shootings.

19 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:36:15pm

re: #16 FemNaziBitch

The Supreme Court’s decision that the ownership of firearms is an individual right is NOT a blanket ‘license to kill’.

WTF?

I think this got posted in the wrong thread.


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 Frank says:

I'm not going to be Bill Clinton and say I never inhaled. I did inhale. I liked tobacco a lot better.