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1 Destro  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:14:43am

Wow, that was corny. Written in the 50’s? That explains the corniness.

2 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:35:53am

re: #1 Destro

I was surprised this got a reaction like yours.

I would have expected people saying that it’s a shame that sentiments like that, faith in one’s people and country are no longer possible.

3 Destro  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:30:44am

re: #2 stabby

I was surprised this got a reaction like yours.

I would have expected people saying that it’s a shame that sentiments like that, faith in one’s people and country are no longer possible.

The sentiments are fine but the sentiments as expressed are corny as the 1950s were.

4 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:29:33am

I don’t think the word “corny” is meaningful.

It seems like a way to tack a negative judgment on something positive without reason.

There are many ways in which faith in humanity and trust and personal help touched on in that quote seem no longer possible, no longer acceptable, no long safe enough in our society. To shallowly dismiss the deeper value and meaning of all that seems to miss the point.

5 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:10:54am

re: #1 Destro

Yeah, I’m not surprised you’d think that. Must be sad living in your mind.

6 Destro  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:45:44am

re: #5 William Barnett-Lewis

Yeah, I’m not surprised you’d think that. Must be sad living in your mind.

believe in — I am proud to belong to — the United States. Despite shortcomings, from lynchings to bad faith in high places, our nation has had the most decent and kindly internal practices and foreign policies to be found anywhere in history.

Except for all those enslaved people and genocided Indians the USA is the best country on earth (for a WASP circa 1950s).

It explains a lot about your typical right wing douche who gets a woody at the sight of politicians pretending they are 1950s era movie cowboys like Reagan or W.

Must be sad wishing for the 1950s to come back in style again.

7 Destro  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:48:21am

re: #4 stabby

I don’t think the word “corny” is meaningful.

It seems like a way to tack a negative judgment on something positive without reason.

There are many ways in which faith in humanity and trust and personal help touched on in that quote seem no longer possible, no longer acceptable, no long safe enough in our society. To shallowly dismiss the deeper value and meaning of all that seems to miss the point.

Instead of corny, how about trite? hackneyed, pablum?

8 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:55:30am

re: #1 Destro

Wow, that was corny. Written in the 50’s? That explains the corniness.

I find it encouraging. I share his belief in my neighbors. I’m not speculating. When the Northridge quake kicked our collective asses, we crewed up found gloves and cleared furniture, debris and glass for anyone that needed it.

When the king riots happened many Angelinos got together for comfort, news and protection.

re: #6 Destro

Except for all those enslaved people and genocided Indians the USA is the best country on earth (for a WASP circa 1950s).

It explains a lot about your typical right wing douche who gets a woody at the sight of politicians pretending they are 1950s era movie cowboys like Reagan or W.

Must be sad wishing for the 1950s to come back in style again.

So tell us, what nation has no violence in it’s formative history, has a Bill Of Rights or anything like it and is impotent enough to not respect any of the positive aspects or eras of it’s place in the world? Where is this place that would satisfy your standard?

9 dragonath  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 12:23:15pm

THIS I BELIEVE

by

Destro

“I’m not going to talk about religious beliefs, because I think anyone who believes in religion is a rube and a dullard.

I don’t believe in my neighbors. I know their faults and they are legion. I know their flaws far outweigh any perceived virtue. Take Father Michael down the road. I’m not of his creed, therefore he is a moron. He’s probably a Republican too. If I’m in trouble, I’ll piss on his front lawn. My veterinary doctor is capitalist swine. I know he’ll charge me a fee to fix up my cat. Because he’s an asshole like that.

I don’t believe - and am not proud to belong to- the United States. Shortcomings like lynchings and bad faith in high places must be assumed collectively among every woman, man, and child because our nation has the worst foreign policy to be found anywhere in history. Truth.

And finally, I don’t believe in my whole race. They’re all ingrates. Every last one of them- scurrilous, dishonest, confused masses of flesh who are inherently rotten, the overwhelming majority of my brothers and sisters everywhere on this planet. I am not proud to be a human being.

I believe that we have come this far by the pillage of the weak, that we must always exploit the flesh of others —but that we will always make it…survive…endure… like cockroaches. I believe that this hairless embryo with the aching, oversize brain case and the opposable thumb, this animal barely up from the apes— will not endure longer than our home planet, and if we do, we will spread out to other planets, like a cancer, spreading our brigandage, and filth, and our unlimited capacity for bad.

This I believe. Why won’t you listen to me?

10 Destro  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 12:50:50pm

re: #8 Political Atheist

I find it encouraging. I share his belief in my neighbors. I’m not speculating. When the Northridge quake kicked our collective asses, we crewed up found gloves and cleared furniture, debris and glass for anyone that needed it.

When the king riots happened many Angelinos got together for comfort, news and protection.

re: #6 Destro

So tell us, what nation has no violence in it’s formative history, has a Bill Of Rights or anything like it and is impotent enough to not respect any of the positive aspects or eras of it’s place in the world? Where is this place that would satisfy your standard?

No nation. So stop acting like the USA is the bestest. We suck at a lot of things including back in the 1950s. Maybe in the 1950s we actually sucked more as a nation.

Get that part?

He is praising American of the 1950s but doing it in a style popular with people back then which I find corny. Like an old Danielle Boone TV episode version of America.

11 Destro  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 12:52:38pm

re: #9 dragonath

THIS I BELIEVE

by

Destro

Belief is what religious people have, like believing in an imaginary person up in the sky. Belief is something you feel is true without any facts. I don’t have a belief system I fall back on. I have a facts based reality I rely on.

12 dragonath  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 12:54:56pm

I believe you, Destro. I really do.

13 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:03:31pm

re: #10 Destro

This is a great nation. Based on the facts. Facts like what we have seen with our own eyes.

“Best” of course is relative. What i perceive from you is an irrational hate for this country. Coming from an Assad supporter, that’s pretty rich.

14 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:22:40pm

re: #11 Destro

Belief is what religious people have, like believing in an imaginary person up in the sky. Belief is something you feel is true without any facts. I don’t have a belief system I fall back on. I have a facts based reality I rely on.

You don’t understand the context at all.

“This I believe” was a series started in 1951 by Edward R. Murrow.

He asked people to write essays explaining their core belief and values and I suppose the best of them were read on the radio by the authors.

[Link: thisibelieve.org…]
[Link: www.npr.org…]

15 Destro  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:26:29pm

re: #13 Political Atheist

This is a great nation. Based on the facts. Facts like what we have seen with our own eyes.

“Best” of course is relative. What i perceive from you is an irrational hate for this country. Coming from an Assad supporter, that’s pretty rich.

Great is relative too, great how? In size?, etc. And I think you hate American because you need jingos to keep your love going. I think the person who loves America the most is the person most honest about the condition of the country.

Also, stating public oaths of allegiance, etc like Heinlein did was a very 1950s witch hunt era thing to do lest someone black list you for being into un-American things. Everyone in the 1950s seems to have been on edge and publicly proclaiming their loyalty, or love of country or being religious (lest they think they were atheists like the commies) . I think it was in the 50s when we placed “In God We Trust” on our money and inserted God in the Pledge of Allegiance.

So all this public proclaiming of belief in of course the greatness of America to me is very 1950s kind of thinking.

16 Destro  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:27:44pm

re: #14 stabby

All this public proclaiming of belief to me is very 1950s kind of thinking. Why do it if not for the era of red scares and cold war paranoia?

Why are you upset at revealing the historical context of such things?


[Link: www.npr.org…]

We hardly need to be reminded that we are living in an age of confusion—a lot of us have traded in our beliefs for bitterness and cynicism or for a heavy package of despair, or even a quivering portion of hysteria. Opinions can be picked up cheap in the market place while such commodities as courage and fortitude and faith are in alarmingly short supply.

See? 1950s.

17 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:29:12pm

re: #16 Destro

I haven’t the slightest clue what you’re talking about.

18 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:30:23pm

The phrase “full of shit” comes to my mind.

Values = cold war?

….

Total nutcase. Whatever drugs you’re on, throw them away.

19 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:31:04pm

You’re a sad little child Destro. Hope you grow up before you grow old.

20 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:32:15pm

I remember a few “this I believe” essays in favor of civil rights.

To assume that Edward R Murrow was a reactionary is just wrong.

21 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:36:36pm

I think his actual agenda was liberalism and bridge-building. Ie anti racism and anti culture war. That and promotion of idealism.

If the opposite of “corny” is “total dysfunction” then which should we choose?

22 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 2:10:49pm

Speaking of belief, I am a pop-left atheist. That is, I don’t believe in the gods of the pop-culture left; the fictional prophet Hawkeye Pierce and his fictitiously evil army in a fictitious war that only bear the names of a real army and a real war, for example. I reject the moonbat-messiah Noam Chomsky and his “America always evil” mantra, as predictable as sunrise. Surely there must be someone, somewhere in another country (other than Israel) who has nefarious motives? I don’t believe in the scribe Howard Zinn and his lurid fictionalized version of history, as fantastic as the Lord of the Rings, but passed off as gospel truth. This applies to the miracles and illustrative homilies of lefty scripture as well. I don’t believe anyone but moonbat propagandist Peter Arnett ever said we had to destroy a village to save it. Arnett admits this, in fact, but this moth-eaten parable is still dragged up every time some hinterland contrarian wants to attack our military and soften the image of our enemies.
I do believe in Barack Obama however. I do believe the right wing is off the rails in this country and we have to keep them from power. Traditional 60s based cultural moonbattery is not helping, though. Many of its corrupt memes have in fact been hijacked and re-deployed by crank libertarians, who essentially don’t believe in anything but greed and power.

23 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:08:42pm

re: #22 Shiplord Kirel

pretty good.

Libertarians are pretty disgusting by the way.

I have two problems with them, 1st of all the obscenely bad idea that all rights stem from property rights. This is a concept of freedom that was invented in concert with slavery, the idea that a free man owns himself the way he owns his slaves.

And that’s not even the bad part, I can agree with the libertarians’ absolute concept of self ownership, the problem is their absolute support for unfetter ownership, their greed, their belief that taxation is inherently a greater evil than any good that society can do for itself.

And creeps like Ron Paul have other disgusting beliefs - the ones that endeared them to the Republican far right. His anti-federalism was an excuse to say that states have a right to end all civil rights legislation - a cover for his own racism and misogyny and a promise that states could become theocratic hell holes where women and gays and blacks can be limitlessly oppressed.

24 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:09:56pm

If Libertarianism was about individual rights instead of about property, then I could be a Libertarian, but Libertarianism is pretty much the belief system of autistic retards who don’t value human beings at all.

25 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:14:31pm

re: #24 stabby

If Libertarianism was about individual rights instead of about property, then I could be a Libertarian, but Libertarianism is pretty much the belief system of autistic retards who don’t value human beings at all.

Looks like you don’t value human beings who may be neurologically or intellectual different from yourself. It’s an offensive attitude.

26 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:18:39pm

re: #25 wrenchwench

I exaggerated, I could have said Aspergers. But watching the rather common sight of Libertarians trying to decide all questions of principle and morality from property rights is very much the sight of watching someone who doesn’t understand normal human values in the slightest.

You get questions like “Does a man have the right to sell himself into slavery (answer ‘yes’),” “does he have the right to sell his own organs?” What happens to his family and children if he does this etc. etc.

They take this nonsense seriously. They’re inverse communists.

27 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:19:51pm

As for your attempt to judge me for being offensive and political incorrect in some tiny measure, all I do in those cases is lose respect for you. Stop meddling. It’s none of your business.

28 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:24:44pm

Also you probably realized that I don’t have disrespect for ACTUAL autistic people (like one of my best friends’ girlfriend), but I certainly don’t respect a political philosophy built on a lack of empathy.

And frankly I believe that empathy is largely a neurological skill. See “mirror neurons”. People who lack it may not be to blame exactly, but they certainly should not be the authors of our political philosophy.

29 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:26:49pm

Actually I think many people who lack empathy do have the SKILL what they also have is chronic aggression which turns empathy inside out. Ie, they emotionally want harm for others.

30 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:32:08pm

Being a selfish libertarian asshole is not a diagnosable condition. Thus, bringing autism into the discussion is an offensive irrelevancy, and retreating to Aspergers is no improvement.

31 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:32:37pm

Ayn Rand is a perfect example of someone who lacks normal human empathy and invented an inferior political philosophy based on that. And the manner which she idolized of a serial killer who murdered a 12 year old without reason suggests that she was a sociopath herself. That early writing suggested a deep resentment for people who have the empathy she lacked.

32 stabby  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:35:12pm

re: #30 EPR-radar

I don’t care whether you find my metaphors offensive.
My reaction is “fuck off and don’t try to dictate how I write”

I have rather deep disrespect for people who pose pious. I don’t need to advertise piety or claim to be a worthy person on that account.

33 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:14:48pm

Stabby, you and Destro deserve each other. All we need is Buck to chime in & we’d have the Trifecta of the LGF house trolls.

34 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:44:27pm

I rather liked Heinlein’s line

“I believe in my Neighbor”

In that I read, not my tribe, or my clan. I believe in human beings. We are one race.

I can concur, because if I don’t believe in my Neighbor, it all falls apart. I also believe in the “self-fulfilling prophecy” and the science behind it.

I’ve seen more good than bad in individuals. Perhaps it’s how I approach and interact with them … . .

35 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:50:23pm

re: #34 FemNaziBitch

I rather liked Heinlein’s line

“I believe in my Neighbor”

In that I read, not my tribe, or my clan. I believe in human beings. We are one race.

I can concur, because if I don’t believe in my Neighbor, it all falls apart. I also believe in the “self-fulfilling prophecy” and the science behind it.

I’ve seen more good than bad in individuals. Perhaps it’s how I approach and interact with them … . .

+100


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