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1 jogiff  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:14:24pm

To me, the use of the Bible in civil ceremonies is harmless, albeit silly. But even if I did really want to get rid of the Bible in these ceremonies, there’s no way that Obama is going to do it. Only Nixon could go to China, and a president as polarizing as Obama could not end this outdated practice. He already has to deal with enough accusations of being a socialist or a Muslim or non-Christian in some other way.

2 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:50:37pm

I don’t find the idea absurd at all. Unnecessary in these days - yes. Absurd - no.

Tradition dies hard, and it was not that many generations ago when all one had to go on was a person’s oath, and that oath only meant something if the person speaking it believed it too.

And, O’Donnell is wrong about “the government that invented the separation of church and state” - the concept as understood by the founding fathers was rooted in a Protestant doctrine that began as an anti-Papal sentiment.

3 Destro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:35:15am

re: #2 freetoken

the concept as understood by the founding fathers was rooted in a Protestant doctrine that began as an anti-Papal sentiment.

Nonsense. Protestants did not invent the separation of church and state as part of some anti-papal sentiment. See Calvinist ruled city states, or Lutheran Germany where papal authority was just replaced with Protestant authority (and Luther endorsed persecution of emerging Christian sects like anti-baptists).

4 Aligarr  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:31:04am

It IS absurd ….leave it alone , it’s not harming anyone , and after all it is the President takingv the oath and no one else . And why incite when there is no real good reason to . Atheists do not like being put upon , so let them accept that matters of faith are a two way street . It’s no skin of their nose .
I believe Gays would have less of a problem if they didn’t have raucus parades with men dressed in drag and suggestive lingerie . The suggestion lacks common sense , similar to what the Orangemen in Ireland do every year , to parade through the neighborhood of their hated rivals putting it in their face . Does anyone expect anything besides an avoidable conflict ?

5 JEA62  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:19:52am

The President has stated time and time again that he is a committed Christian. Keith Ellison took his oath of office with his hand on the Koran.

BTW, all nonsensically stupid rants like O’Donnell’s do is give right-wing Christians ammunition to back their claims that the left is anti-religion.

6 Skip Intro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:52:16am
7 Jim D  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:29:25am

re: #4 Aligarr

right. i’m sure things were much better for them before the parades. fuck off

8 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:59:00pm
9 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:11:14pm

re: #3 Destro

the concept as understood by the founding fathers was rooted in a Protestant doctrine that began as an anti-Papal sentiment.

Nonsense. Protestants did not invent the separation of church and state as part of some anti-papal sentiment. See Calvinist ruled city states, or Lutheran Germany where papal authority was just replaced with Protestant authority (and Luther endorsed persecution of emerging Christian sects like anti-baptists).

The American Founders lived 200 years after Luther and Calvin, and they derived their separation ideas from Protestant doctrines that had been originally formulated to counter the secular influence the Catholic Church often had in Continental Europe. The ideas were altered, though, by the desire of the Founders to ensure religious tolerance and thus avoid bloody acts of religious violence such as the Gordon Riots. So in this case separation was ‘rooted in older anti-Catholic ideas, but it grew beyond them.

10 Aligarr  Sun, Jan 13, 2013 6:01:06am

re#7 Jim D
I don’t think you’re sure of anything . If you can tell me having gays parading down the street in parades , overexposed , exploiting their sexual preference , does not have a negative effect , then you’re an idiot . I wouldn’t think heterosexuals doing the same are any different . Unfortunately zealous [stupid ] people seem to find it necessarry to put their shit in someone elses face .
You can go fuck -off you ignorant asshole .

11 Destro  Sun, Jan 13, 2013 9:32:29am

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

Downding because the Founding Fathers were not responding to Catholicism but rather state sanctioned Protestantism of England and it’s relationship to the state.

12 Destro  Sun, Jan 13, 2013 9:33:54am

re: #2 freetoken

I don’t find the idea absurd at all. Unnecessary in these days - yes. Absurd - no.

Tradition dies hard, and it was not that many generations ago when all one had to go on was a person’s oath, and that oath only meant something if the person speaking it believed it too.

And, O’Donnell is wrong about “the government that invented the separation of church and state” - the concept as understood by the founding fathers was rooted in a Protestant doctrine that began as an anti-Papal sentiment.

The absurdity comes from swearing an oath on a book you in public state is wrong on issues like women’s rights and gay people.

13 Aligarr  Sun, Jan 13, 2013 12:58:40pm

Much ado over nothing , speaking of absurdities , take our own Constitution ,and Declaration of Independence , stating all men are created equal while holding slaves and retaining slavery as an institution . Swearing an oath to a commonly accepted[ at that time ] Higher Source ,was a tradition and formality to express the gravity of lieing before the Court , which most likely finds it’s origins in the ten commandnents and the code of Hamurabi regarding false witness . It was commonly assumed that all men belived in a god of one sort or another regardless of religious stripe , even the Masons, of which most of the leading founding fathers were , believed in a singular God . Seperation of churvch and state originated from persecution in England against anyone who wasn’t Anglican Christian . Swearing by Zeus , is STIOLL swearing by a Diety . O’Donnel and everyone else would be best served if O’Donell just kept his mouth shut on the subject .Taking the oath simply means you will not lie , NOT under penalty of any god , but by a charge of perjury by which the COURT will punish you . There are hundreds of thinks if not thousands , besides gays and womens rights , that many people would not find agreeable , in the case of an oath we are talking soley about lieing , not subscribing to any particular dogma .

14 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jan 13, 2013 2:33:52pm

re: #10 Aligarr

The best way for people to avoid gays “putting their shit in other people’s faces,” with respect to Pride Parades is to simply not attend the parade.

Ignorant twit.

15 Aligarr  Sun, Jan 13, 2013 5:48:08pm

Oh , and then no one will see them right ? I guess you dont know what the word public means . ” Pride Parades ” ? Maybe on Columbus Day , the italians should come out in G-strings and Jock straps .
Dumb Moron .

16 hellosnackbar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 3:27:24am

If I were ever to appear in court and asked to swear on the Holey Babble or Mein Koramf I would insist on swearing only on the God Delusion.

17 Gus  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 4:22:07pm

re: #16 hellosnackbar

If I were ever to appear in court and asked to swear on the Holey Babble or Mein Koramf I would insist on swearing only on the God Delusion.

Don’t be an asshole.

18 Gus  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 4:23:07pm

re: #4 Aligarr

It IS absurd ….leave it alone , it’s not harming anyone , and after all it is the President takingv the oath and no one else . And why incite when there is no real good reason to . Atheists do not like being put upon , so let them accept that matters of faith are a two way street . It’s no skin of their nose .
I believe Gays would have less of a problem if they didn’t have raucus parades with men dressed in drag and suggestive lingerie . The suggestion lacks common sense , similar to what the Orangemen in Ireland do every year , to parade through the neighborhood of their hated rivals putting it in their face . Does anyone expect anything besides an avoidable conflict ?

Don’t be an asshole.

19 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 15, 2013 12:12:28am

re: #16 hellosnackbar

If I were ever to appear in court and asked to swear on the Holey Babble or Mein Koramf I would insist on swearing only on the God Delusion.

That was totally clever!
Wait, no, it wasn’t.
No need to trash religion. It will slowly fade away in time (centuries, likely). We will deal with the bumps in the road when we come to them.
Sheesh.


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Well, you know I've been here many times, and only certain hours of the day when I'm here am I asleep; the rest of the time I'm actually awake. -- I have a filler on a dat with zappa being interrogated by a couple of swedish fans/state officers(who knows)...in which they are arguing over the pornographic contents of his work. he tells them he has been spying on them, and claims that their porno industry is bigger than that of the US. it's pretty funny. btw-this is from thew '88 tour.