Pages

Sign InRegisterForgotten password?

RebelmouseTwitterFacebook
Advertisement

61 comments

Jump to bottom
1 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 10:10:30am

“Why I let a Canadian from Windsor, Ontario decide my vote,” said no American voter, ever.

2 Red Falcons of America  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 10:20:19am

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

The United States annexed Windsor, Ontario and are denying Windsorians there civil right to seek out representation and improve their quality of life?

Solidarity with the Windsor Liberation Organization!

3 2senseplain  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 10:39:06am

Every time I think our Leftists can’t possibly get flakier and more clueless, they find a new way to astonish me. Not only is this woman under the misconception that someone who has the option to become a citizen and get voting rights any time she chooses is oppressed because she chooses to partake of a residence status of a sort that exists no place else. The fact that she voted Balad without really understanding what the party stands for (or any awareness of how many of their leaders give aid and comfort to our enemies including during wartime) boggles my mind. Its a lot more than just letting a citizen from another country decide your vote, Babushka.

4 2senseplain  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 11:08:52am

Falcon, no Arab resident of Jerusalem is prevented from taking Israeli citizenship just because they are an Arab and participating in National elections and offices. As residents, East Jerusalemites rejecting Israeli citizenship have the right to vote in municipal elections and play a role in the administration of the city. Residents pay taxes, and following a 1988 Israeli Supreme Court ruling, East Jerusalem residents are guaranteed the right to social security benefits and state health care. More and more Arabs are choosing citizenship (if only to make sure they aren’t compelled to become, G-d forbid, citizens of the Palestinian Authority). The weird special Jerusalem residence status came out of the fact that Arabs who chose to be Israeli had to (and may still have to ) worry about their fellow Arabs murdering them for “collaborating”. Jerusalem Arabs are threatened regularly for voting in the municipal elections and it works because they are afraid that the Israel authorities won’t be able to protect them. Nobody else in any other country would have tolerated a set-up like this. Certainly not to let it go on this long. Lots of Arabs are citizens, vote and otherwise participate in Israeli national political life, education, culture, business, etc. Just because this woman chooses not to be a citizen doesn’t mean I ought to hand over my civil rights. I’m sorry. The Tel Aviv woman who wrote this article is simply an idiot.

5 What, me worry?  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 1:34:44pm

re: #4 2senseplain

I didn’t catch that she wasn’t a citizen. The word “resident” was deliberately used in a way to throw off the reader. The U.S. law on residency is identical. Permanent residents do not vote. Only citizens.

6 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 2:12:03pm

re: #5 What, me worry?

I didn’t catch that she wasn’t a citizen. The word “resident” was deliberately used in a way to throw off the reader. The U.S. law on residency is identical. Permanent residents do not vote. Only citizens.

Not at all. An Arab born in the US doesn’t have to apply to the US for naturalization. They’re automatically a citizen.

The past two years have seen a decline (487 in 2011; and 374 until September this year ). But everyone involved agrees that the reason for the falloff is not a decrease in the number of requests but foot-dragging in the Interior Ministry. Sources in the ministry admit that the rate of requests exceed the rate at which they are dealt with.

7 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 3:52:26pm

re: #5 What, me worry?

Arabs are pushed out of their homes all the time, I hear stories about that at least once a week.

At what point to we tell Israel to stop with the settlements? At this point, a Palestinian state is not even economically feasible.

A bunch of barricaded off cities and towns barred from their farmland, with the water being taken out from under them.

Is that a state worth having? No, it is not.

8 Buck  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 5:09:06pm

Over the past five years, about 3,000 Palestinians applied for Israeli citizenship, and about 2,300 received it, according to the Interior Ministry. The number of Palestinians granted Israeli citizenship has increased each year during that time, from 147 in 2006 to 690 in 2010.

You notice that the post says ‘national elections’. East Jerusalem residents, the ones that don’t choose to become Israeli citizens, hold Jerusalem identification cards — documents of permanent residency and vote in municipal elections.

A right and privilege that is NOT given to any of their Palestinian muslim and Arab brothers and sisters out side of Israel.

Do Arab Palestinians vote in Lebanon? How about in Gaza? Hmm, they must in Jordan right? No? Quelle surprise.

The Arab League has instructed its members to deny citizenship to original Palestine Arabs “to avoid dissolution of their identity and protect their right to return to their homeland”.

9 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 22, 2013 7:51:02pm

Nice piece of BS, WoM.

10 Aligarr  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 2:49:01am

Another anecdotal B.S. story , meant to evoke sympathy for those poor downtrodden Palestinians .
And to the UNINFORMED and INTELLECTUALLY LAZY , that is exactly what this story will do . The author of this rubbish is counting on it .

11 Red Falcons of America  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 9:48:03am

re: #10 Aligarr

yeah, fucking assholes. If only they didn’t evoke sympathy, then Israel wouldn’t be an international pariah state.

12 Aligarr  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 11:37:20am

Not unless you believe it chum . If you think Israel is a “pariah state ” due to that , then you know nothing about anti-semitism .
And please dont offer up a difference between anti-zionist and anti-jew . And if you believed the above article , then you’re ignorant regarding what rights arab citizens have or dont have .

13 Aligarr  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 4:16:52pm

….and BTW , that “sympathy” is evoked only in the minds of simpletons and the biased .
Just so we’re clear on that .

14 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 4:28:41pm

re: #13 Aligarr

….and BTW , that “sympathy” is evoked only in the minds of simpletons and the biased .
Just so we’re clear on that .

No, YOU’RE clear on that. You don’t get to dictate who others do or don’t feel compassion for.

15 Buck  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 4:40:21pm

re: #11 Red Falcons of America

yeah, fucking assholes. If only they didn’t evoke sympathy, then Israel wouldn’t be an international pariah state.

Make a list of countries that think Israel is an “international pariah state”, then cross out any that are run by dictators and tyrants. Cross out any that don’t have a Free Press. Remove any who don’t have elections with a opposition party.

Not much of a list left is there?

16 Buck  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 4:48:25pm

re: #13 Aligarr

….and BTW , that “sympathy” is evoked only in the minds of simpletons and the biased .
Just so we’re clear on that .

I have a lot of sympathy for Arab Palestinians. There are some who are very oppressed. They are oppressed by the Arab Palestinian leadership, and the Arab/Muslim countries that are supporting the terrorists Hamas and holocaust denying Fatah.

The ones who are not oppressed? The million or so that live in Israel.

17 Aligarr  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 5:16:36pm

re #13 Curious lurker

Correct lurker I’m clear on that , and anyone who isn’t , is exactly as I described . I’m not dictating what you should think , I’m telling you what you are .
When the Palestinians , via the Palestinian National Council ,vote on and remove the language in the Palestinian National Charter calling for the destruction of Israel , which has been brought before that Council 3 x’s and rejected 3x’s , then and only then will I consider a sympathetic position . This was the FIRST STEP , to be taken by the Palestinians in Oslo [FYI] .
In addition the palestinian people VOTED HAMAS IN , and by no coincidence the Hamas Charter calls for the same , only in a quicker manner . And in case you are misinformed , there is NO PROVISION in either of those sworn covenants for TWO STATES , ONLY ONE , Palestine from River to Sea with Jerusalem as its capitol , and the removal of Jews from the land .
So cry me a river and wring your hands , you’re ignorant of REALITY .

18 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 7:15:38pm

re: #11 Red Falcons of America

The reason is Israel is disliked has to do with hatred of Jews, not with sympathy of the Palestinians.

19 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 7:27:26pm

re: #17 Aligarr

re #13 Curious lurker

I don’t give a damn who or what you think I am. Your nasty attitude and lack of approval of my views (which you obviously know little or nothing about) isn’t going to shut me up or accomplish much of anything beyond making you look like an asshole, so piss off.

20 JeffFX  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 7:33:06pm

re: #17 Aligarr

Weird caps, strange punctuation.
Lay off the cough syrup dude, I’m very worried about you.

21 Aligarr  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 7:43:48pm

No ones telling you shut up nor how to think , who do you think you are ? Throwing a hissy fit does you no good . My nasty attitude ? You mean my objective observation of people who hold your views ? That my conclusion is not to your liking ? Are your views put up here for someone’s “approval ” , well mine are not , I dont give a rats ass about your approval or anyone elses. If you ignore FACTS , and the reality of a situation , then demean me for not having sympathy , that really makes you somewhat of an a-hole .
” shut you up ” ? not at all , rant on , the more you open your mouth , the more you confirm my conclusion about you . You’re ignorant of the facts .

22 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 7:47:14pm

re: #21 Aligarr

Okay, asshat. What are my views? Tell me, and be sure you provide links to my comments to back up whatever claims you make.

23 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 8:27:12pm

re: #20 JeffFX

Weird caps, strange punctuation.
Lay off the cough syrup dude, I’m very worried about you.

Yet he claims to be “objective” and points at me as the one who’s supposedly having a hissy fit, weeping, and wringing my hands. It’ll be amusing to see how long it takes him to provide proof of my ignorant, misinformed views. //

24 rosiee  Wed, Jan 23, 2013 11:51:40pm

re: #7 ProBosniaLiberal

When Israel left Gaza, instead of taking over the greenhouses they burnt them, your point is moot.

25 Aligarr  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:09:32am

You are your own proof , and since i will not debate an idiot , once that fact is established , I will tell you what you told me to do …piss off asshole . I made my argument and stated the facts . Refute them or STFU .

26 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:34:59am

re: #25 Aligarr

LOL, riiiiight. Now I’m supposed to refute facts about the Palestinian elections, leadership and Hamas which I never claimed were false because you—in your blind, knee-jerk fury at being told you couldn’t dictate who was allowed to have compassion—jumped to idiotic conclusions and made a bunch of hysterical, baseless accusations about my supposed views, which you now cannot prove.

If that’s the best you can do, then I suggest that you take your own advice and STFU before you make a bigger fool of yourself, you hateful little pissant.

27 Aligarr  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 5:31:10am

Uh oh , I see a bruised ego . Take an aspirin lurker .
And try to be original with your insults . Just remember , everyone here are just bloggers on a blog , not experts or authorities on any given subject . I’m entitled to my opinion , and the conclusion I reach are my own , not needing approval , nor are they DICTATED to anyone . It is my opinion and conclusion , that any sympathy for palestinians in view of the common knowledge of recent history , is a simpleton , or is biased .If said simpletons are unaware of the covenants that palestinian have sworn to , then such people are ignorant , or in purposed denial .

28 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 5:44:13am

re: #27 Aligarr

Blah, blah, blah. You didn’t like it when I told you that you don’t get to dictate who others do or don’t feel compassion for, so you launched a personal attack and made stupid assertions about my views that you couldn’t back up.

Now you keep spinning furiously to try to cover up that fact. It’s really that simple. Stop whining and grow up.

29 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 6:08:41am

re: #27 Aligarr

Why do you misuse punctuation?

And group blame is stupid.

30 Red Falcons of America  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 7:48:05am

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

It’s so weird; pro-Israel people like to repeat that the conflict is “a complicated matter” and at the same time boil it down to an all encompassing simplified “antisemitism!”

My favorite is when pro-Israel people call Jews antisemites (pretty much what happened here re: #3 2senseplain

31 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 8:16:24am

re: #3 2senseplain

Talking about ‘our leftists’ as a broad category is stupid.

32 Red Falcons of America  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 9:33:01am

re: #31 Obdicut

Thousands of rightwing Israelis marched in Jerusalem’s Arab neighborhoods, provoked local Palestinian residents and shouted racist remarks chants, among them “let your village burn,” “death to Mohammad” and “death to all leftists”. The event, part of the “Jerusalem Day” celebration, was organized and promoted by the municipality. Jerusalem’s police escorted the parade, and made no attempt to stop the racist calls.

To the Israeli fascists, after they kill the Arabs they are coming for Jews that don’t agree with them.

33 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:41:05am

re: #32 Red Falcons of America

I don’t understand why you’re posting this kind of inflammatory video. Regardless of whether it’s true or not, all it serves to do is ignite polarizing emotional reactions and shut down rational discourse. It’s like what aligarr is doing, just in a different way.

Is wielding cudgels in the form of screeching accusations or ugly videos really supposed to improve people’s perceptions of either side? People here can find & post videos of Palestinians behaving equally badly, and they will (it has been done before, many times). To what end? To reassure each side that their hatred of the other is righteous & justified and the other side is pure evil, completely bereft of humanity and therefore undeserving of any compassion?

Yeah, lets all just keep screaming at & hating on each other for another 100 years because it has worked out SO WELL for the Israelis & Palestinians so far. //

34 rosiee  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:55:43am

re: #33 CuriousLurker

You’re commenting in a post from 972mag and now, at the end of ~30 comments do you come out and say that?

35 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:02:27pm

re: #34 rosiee

You’re commenting in a post from 972mag and now, at the end of ~30 comments do you come out and say that?

What’s your point?

36 rosiee  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:16:13pm

re: #35 CuriousLurker

Why no admonishment of 972mag being drivvel?

37 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:29:00pm

re: #36 rosiee

Why no admonishment of 972mag being drivvel?

Because I don’t know enough about the legal situation in Israel or 972mag to to make that determination. I’m a liberal American Muslim, and my principal focus is keeping tabs on the American far-right, especially WRT to the promotion of anti-Muslim bigotry & propaganda, because it affects me directly and it is therefore in my best interests to stay informed. Sometimes the info I collect touches on the Israeli far-right where the two overlap. Because of this focus, I’m primarily familiar with American far-right talking points, events, individuals & organizations. None of that should surprise anyone.

Likewise, I would assume that those who are advocating for Israel feel that what happens there directly affects them, and it is therefore in their best interests to stay on top of talking points, events, individuals & organizations related to the I-P conflict. Ditto for people who are advocating for the Palestinians. Again, none of that should surprise anyone—it’s what people do, they concern themselves with matters that directly affect them & their loved ones.

That said, it’s not up to me to vet the items posted here by people who have their own priorities & best interests at heart, regardless of who they are. That’s their job. If I see something that seems obviously over the top, then I say so, as I did with both Aligarr & RFoA. As a member in good standing here that is my privilege. It’s also entirely consistent with my beliefs as expressed in hundreds of Pages and thousands of comments over the course of almost 3 years here.

Finally, I’ll point out that no one called out RFoA for linking to 972mag, they jumped on the content of the article and its author. If 972mag is known to be anti-Semitic or otherwise suspect or unreliable, then someone with knowledge of that should have said so and (preferably calmly) proceeded to point out why. No one did, so I fail to see how not admonishing him is somehow an oversight or failing on my part.

38 rosiee  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:19:23pm

re: #37 CuriousLurker

Thanks for the explanation, and yes, we all have our own specialities and interests. 972mag is a left-wing Israeli publication with links to B’tselem. Very much in the Chomsky- Finklestein camp, many of whose authors use their Jewishness as ballast for their strikingly unfair judgements on Israel. Propagandists like reddit’s /r/worldnews, and /r/politics love to use their articles. But I applaud your fairness in pointing out ridiculousness and hate from all parties.

39 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 3:58:38pm

re: #38 rosiee

And thank you for the calm response & explanation. I’m not familiar with B’tselem, but I’ll look it up. I haven’t had much exposure to the American far-left, Jewish or otherwise, as I dislike extremism of any type.

That said, several months ago, out of curiosity (after having heard his name mentioned here on numerous occasions) I did happen to watch a documentary about Finkelstein called American Radical on Al Jazeera. It seemed to be fairly objective—i.e. both his supporters & detractors were interviewed at length, and I didn’t get the sense that the producer of the film was especially sympathetic to him.

FWIW, he mostly struck me as kind of sad & confused, a sort of Don Quixote figure hopelessly tilting at windmills due to an intense love & dedication to his his mother and her Holocaust-inspired pacifism (as he understood it), which seemed to have made a deep impression on him at a very young age. He’s clearly very intelligent & well educated in his field, but he seems incapable of seeing himself clearly or grasping why his extremism cost him his career & most of his credibility as a professor. He claims to be a pacifist and says he loves Israel & is pro-Zionist, but then he’d turn around and voice support for Hamas or say/do other crazy stuff. Very strange man.

Anyway, one other thing: Can you tell me why you down-dinged this comment on the aigle Page? Is the Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI) known for publishing false data or something? I read their Wiki entry and (briefly) skimmed through a couple of pages on their website, but it didn’t help much. I’m curious about it, but I don’t want to go jump into the middle another thread as it’s too late in the day and I’m too tired.

40 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 4:01:01pm
41 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 4:16:35pm

re: #40 Aligarr

Oh FFS, now you’re starting to act like LVQ Jr. Your hatred & lack of sympathy for ALL Palestinians eats at nothing but your own soul. If someone collectively blamed Jews for something I’m quite sure you’d be screaming about it.

You know, if you’d been able to pull your head out of your ass long enough to check out my comment & Page history here then you’d know what an utter fool you’re making of yourself right now, but by all means please continue. As for me, I’m finished talking to you. Period.

42 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 4:23:45pm

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

The reason is Israel is disliked has to do with hatred of Jews, not with sympathy of the Palestinians.

Nonsense.

43 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 4:29:02pm
44 Red Falcons of America  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 5:11:43pm

re: #33 CuriousLurker

I thank you for calling me out on my privilege as an American support of Palestine rights.

I honestly don’t think that this is the forum for convincing others to change there minds. I posted such an ‘inflammatory’ video because there is an ideology on LGF that arabs in general and Palestinians in particular are only motivated by hate and antisemitism. The other reason was to illustrate the point that Jewish and Israeli leftists are looked down as in the same category ‘the enemy’ to be liquidated following the creation of Eretz Yisrael (B’tselem is an Israeli non-governmental organization who’s stated goals are “to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel”.)

The fact is that there are two sides to this conflict with it’s own extremists in power. In my mind, as a supporter of Palestinian human and civil rights, is that there is a power imbalance between the two sides, with Israel holding all the cards.

45 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 6:31:17pm

re: #44 Red Falcons of America

I hear you, and you have the same privilege to voice your opinion here as I or anyone else does. LGF may not be the best forum for changing the minds of people who are already dug in on one side or the other, but in defense of the general population I have to say I think you’re not giving people enough credit.

There are many here who have compassion for the suffering of Palestinian civilians (not the leadership) and will listen with fairness if you state your case rationally and with convincing supporting evidence from credible sources. The problem is that these threads tend to get emotional quickly devolve into…well, into exactly what happened with this one (which I foolishly contributed to by wasting time responding to Aligarr’s insults in kind). It’s why the others, the ones who DO have compassion prefer to stay away. I know this because they have told me so, more than once.

If you’re not trying to make a positive difference—even if only by tiny increments of increased mutual understanding—and instead only offer tit-for-tat push back, then to you your way and to me mine. I’m not sure how that helps the Palestinians who you say you support, but what you deem to be the best approach for you is your prerogative, obviously. We each do what we think is right.

You seem to know a lot more about the situation than I do. I’ve never been to the West Bank or Gaza, nor have I been to Israel, so I have no first-hand knowledge of the suffering on either side. My way of trying to make a small difference is to strive to contribute something positive by reaching out (however incrementally) to those who are open to dialog, and also to learn more (and I have learned a LOT here). I’m also always mindful of the silent majority that lurks, watching how we behave and digesting what we say, not to mention the people who may just happen by for a few minutes and read our words.

As for those the far-right extremists, and I assume you mean the Kahanist types, they are unreachable and of zero interest to me. Ditto for extremist Muslims or Christians. They are the problem, not the solution.

46 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 7:32:07pm
47 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 7:36:38pm
48 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 8:28:36pm

re: #40 Aligarr

Your fucked up punctuation and all caps words makes you look like a lunatic.

49 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 24, 2013 8:45:31pm

re: #46 Aligarr

50 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 5:12:53am
51 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 5:13:49am
52 Aligarr  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 5:26:38am

For the uninformed , the bigoted and revisionists:

“Israel is still the only country in the world against which there is a
written document to the effect that it must disappear.” - Menachem
Begin, former Prime Minister of Israel.


“It should be remembered that in 1918, with the fall of the Ottoman
Empire, Britain and France were handed 5,000,000 square miles to divvy
up and 99% was given to the Arabs to create countries that did not exist
previously. 1% was given as a Mandate for the re-establishment of a
state for the Jews on both banks of the Jordan River. In 1921, to once
again appease the Arabs, another three quarters of that 1% was given to
a fictitious state called Trans-Jordan.” - Jack Berger, vice president
of the Zionist Organization of Chicago, May 31, 2004.


“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for
all-out war, a war which will last for generations.” -
Yasser Arafat, former leader of the PLO.


“We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely
Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by
psychological warfare and population explosion. We Palestinians will
take over everything, including all of Jerusalem.” - Yasser Arafat,
former leader of the PLO.


“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian
state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of
Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference
between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for
political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of
a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit
the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism…
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined
borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian,
I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem.
However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will
not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.” - PLO executive
committee member Zahir Muhsein, March 31, 1977, interview with the Dutch
newspaper Trouw.

.

53 Aligarr  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 5:36:05am

I make a distinction between Palestinians who have rejected Israeli citizenship ,and Israeli arabs who have accepted it . AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE .

54 Aligarr  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:09:15am

re: #48 Obdicut

you’re right ….that changes the whole argument huh ? …the punctuation ….

55 Aligarr  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:12:49am

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

I don’t click on youtube videos , I read and crosscheck information . I saw a magician get cut in half on youtube ….how’d they do that man ?

56 ProBosniaLiberal  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 11:38:06am

re: #52 Aligarr

And yet, Kahanist like you support the sort of stuff like Deir Yassin and the other massacres like it.

You have never thought that perhaps those massacres are a catalyst for the current situation, have you? That perhaps that presented an image of Israel that is negative?

57 kmg  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 12:20:12pm

re: #56 ProBosniaLiberal

Before Deir Yassin was the massacre of Jews in Hebron and Safad. Now how do they fit into your blame game?

58 Aligarr  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 1:40:25pm

re: #56 ProBosniaLiberal

Why do you compare a pro-Israel position , with that of a Kahanist ? You expose yourself as misinformed , ignorant or biased . I would suggest you do abit of research on Deir Yasin , the cunard of the arab argument on the part of apologists since 1948 .And I use the term arab because there was no term “palestinian ” until the mid 70’s .There is also an issue of credibility on the part of the palestinians as was emphasized by the “Mohamed Al-Dura incident ” ,and the battle of Jenin , where the palestinians claimed 500 innocents were killed by the IDF, their bodies buried by bulldozers -as it turned out 52 palesinians were killed 18 of which were non-combatants forced to stay to serve as decoys and lures for the IDF , and that described by the palestinian commander himself. 25 IDF were killed . Palestinians were filmed carrying out the dead on stretchers , the “dead” were then getting up to make a rerun .
Israel is not perfect , but Israel is right . Israelis want peace but not at ‘any price ’ , they are not fools . Nothng short of complete epiphany of thought will change the arab position of desiring the destruction of Israel , and the Israelis know it .

59 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:36:54pm

re: #56 ProBosniaLiberal

And yet, Kahanist like you support the sort of stuff like Deir Yassin and the other massacres like it.

You have never thought that perhaps those massacres are a catalyst for the current situation, have you? That perhaps that presented an image of Israel that is negative?

Aligarr is not a Kahanist, PLL. He’s not for expelling non-Jews, nor for the imposition of theocracy, but he does believe as I do that Israel has no partner for peace and needs to accept low-level hostilities as the norm for the time being.

60 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:38:14pm

re: #57 kmg

Before Deir Yassin was the massacre of Jews in Hebron and Safad. Now how do they fit into your blame game?

I have to answer that with the O’Reilly Rule:

You cannot justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.

61 Buck  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 8:28:11pm

Despite being able to witness present day Palestinians deliberately exaggerate stories about atrocities.

AND despite the Jordanian newspaper Al Urdun which published a survivor’s account in 1955, which said the Palestinians had deliberately exaggerated stories about atrocities in Deir Yassin. These “exaggerated stories” worked for both side. The Jews wanted to frighten the civilian arab militants that were attacking and killing Jewish civilians with impunity. The Arabs wanted to create a sort of “blood libel” that had worked in the past history to created mobs to attack Jews.

Yet despite all that, the Deir Yassin card still gets pulled.

Next is the USS Liberty massacre….

At the time leading to Deir Yassin the Jews were defending themselves from an organized effort of genocide and ethnic cleansing. For years the arab leadership in multiple countries were attacking and slaughtering Jewish men, women and children. The entire world was standing by and watching the effort of genocide and ethnic cleansing and turning a blind eye. No condemnation then or even today to the multiple “sort of stuff” where Jews were massacred for decades before Deir Yassin.

This is certainly NOT justifying “bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior”. It is pointing to people being violent against you you being violent back.

Jews fighting back makes some people uncomfortable. However shit happens in war. You don’t want people to be massacred? Don’t make war.

62 kmg  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:36:36pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

I wasn’t justifying, just basically pointing out that bad behaviour didn’t start with Deir Yassin. I could have gone further back to Khaybar if he wants to talk about massacres.

63 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:20:22pm

re: #53 Aligarr

I make a distinction between Palestinians who have rejected Israeli citizenship ,and Israeli arabs who have accepted it . AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE .

In order to virtually guarantee acceptance East Jerusalem Arabs, born in Israel, must apply for citizenship between the ages of 18 to 25, after having lived in Israel for the prior five years. Under current law other Palestinians can’t become citizens even if they marry an Israeli citizen, they’re specifically barred under the law.

In January 2012, the Supreme Court of Israel upheld a law banning Palestinians who marry Israelis from gaining Israeli citizenship.

So with regards to the vast majority of Palestinians, it’s really not fair to say that they’ve “rejected” citizenship. Unless they were born in Israel, including land specificially annexed by Israel like East Jerusalem, they’re incapable of rejecting anything.

Persons born in Israel, who have never had any nationality and subject to limitations specified in law, if they:
-apply for it in the period between their 18th and 25th birthday and
-have been residents of Israel for five consecutive years, immediately preceding the day of the filing of their application.

64 Aligarr  Fri, Jan 25, 2013 11:15:26pm

Indeed Dark Falcon , Israel is in the position of seeking a peace treaty with an adversarry that is sworn to her Destruction . That’s the big secret that everyone knows , but no one wants to hear . Five Wars and over 32,000 acts of violence against Israel and its citizens , unrelenting for 60 years , hundreds of broken cease-fires ,agreements , truces and treaties , ongoing to today and as we speak , kinda sums up the palestinian position and GOAL . And it’s not that they do not broadcast those goals in arabic away from western ears . Even the “alleged moderate” Abbas spouts the ” sons of monkeys and pigs ” routine .Nothing’s changed since 1948 .
I have no sympathy for them .

65 Aligarr  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 4:37:08am

re: #63 goddamnedfrank

The ” Temporary Meaure ” taken in March 2002 , was put into effect due to a palestinian who married an Isareli Arab and was granted free reighn to rome anywhere in Israel .Unfortunately he blew up a restaurant in Haifa killing 14 people . Up to that point 12000 palestinians a yea were granted citizenship since 1994 . There is however still a path to naturalization , but it is more stringent and requires 4 years AFTER a residency of 5 years is proven . Given the circumstances in Israel with palestinians and suicide bombings , it is a security measure that wil most likely continue until the status quo changes for the better . All this brought on specifically by the violent behavior of the palestinians . Protecting the existying citizenry of Israel takes precedence over naturalization of arabs who choose to become Israeli citizens .THAT is the reality of the situation .

66 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:26:19am

re: #62 kmg

I wasn’t justifying, just basically pointing out that bad behaviour didn’t start with Deir Yassin. I could have gone further back to Khaybar if he wants to talk about massacres.

Fair enough. “We didn’t start the fire” arguments can have validity in my eyes and that one does.

67 Aligarr  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:45:08am

It actually goes back to Medina , but then you enter the religious origins of the hatred .


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

Turn off ads by subscribing!
For about 33 cents a day, our subscription option turns off all advertisements at LGF!
Read more...

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Articles

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Pages

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form
LGF Pages Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title and text already filled in.

Last updated: 2013-05-26 5:26 pm PDT

Recent Pages
Heywood Jabloeme
Bobby Jindal Is Confused About Tom Friedman and Economics
The thing about no longer being the stupid party is you actually have to do it. That means grappling with the world as it is; not as it was in 1980. It means grappling with your opponents as they are; not as Fox News imagines them. And it particularly means grappling with how to reapply conservative principles to these new realities; not how to ...

12 minutes ago
Views: 32 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Randall Gross
In Berlin, Obama to Call for Reduction in Nuclear Arms
President Barack Obama is expected to use his speech at the iconic Brandenburg Gate on Wednesday to renew calls for a reduction in nuclear weapons. It is not the first time the president has called for a reduction in stockpiles, but by addressing the issue in a major foreign speech, Obama is hoping to rekindle the issue, which was at the center of his ...

3 hours, 43 minutes ago
Views: 56 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Cap'n Magic
Jack Shafer: Snowden vs the Dragons
Reuters: But even the press in aggregate is not a friend to whistle-blowers, as its recent treatment of Snowden attests, what with the deep dives into his teen years (including photos), his education and employment history, his reputation as a loner and a “brainiac,” his pants-down hijinks, his online scribblings, his dancer girlfriend, his predilection for (in his own words) “post-coital Krispy Kremes.” Squeezing ...

9 hours, 22 minutes ago
Views: 47 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Romantic Heretic
Jesus Christ sues GOP for slander
I wish this was true. If for no other reason than to watch heads explode.

13 hours, 40 minutes ago
Views: 156 • Comments: 5
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 4
William of Orange
Jail reckless bankers, standards commission urges
Senior bankers guilty of reckless misconduct should be jailed, a long-awaited report on banking commissioned by the government has recommended. The Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards was set up by Chancellor George Osborne last year after a number of scandals involving the industry. Jail reckless bankers, standards commission urgesThe cross-party group's fifth report attacked the lack of accountability of bankers and also said some ...

14 hours, 26 minutes ago
Views: 99 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 2
Dancing along the light of day
Boeing nets orders for 102 stretch 787s
LE BOURGET, France — Boeing Co. won major orders from five customers for a stretched-out version of its popular 787 Dreamliner jet at the Paris Air Show Tuesday, further evidence of a strengthening market for more expensive long-haul jets.Boeing announced the formal launch of its 787-10 program at the Paris Air Show on Tuesday and says it already has commitments for 102 jets from ...

14 hours, 33 minutes ago
Views: 72 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
DO WINGNUT WORDS SHOW THEY EVOLVED BRAINS?11!!
Baker’s Graduation Cake Mix-Up Ends in Purr-fect Mistake
When Laura Gambrel, 22, of Zionsville, Ind., graduated from Indiana University in May, she wanted to keep the celebration pretty low key. She didn’t walk at the ceremony, nor did she have a party because she planned to go right back to the university this coming fall for grad school. It seemed only fitting then that the one thing her mother attempted to do ...

17 hours, 11 minutes ago
Views: 172 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 5
nines09
Liam Clancy - The Band Played Waltzing Matilda
Been a while since I was reminded of this one. Friend of mine posted it today. Let me share it with you. Liam Clancy

20 hours, 50 minutes ago
Views: 134 • Comments: 6
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 6
FemNaziBitch
Study: Reading Fiction Makes People Comfortable With Ambiguity
Are you uncomfortable with ambiguity? It's a common condition, but a highly problematic one. The compulsion to quell that unease can inspire snap judgments, rigid thinking, and bad decision-making. Fortunately, new research suggests a simple antidote for this affliction: Read more literary fiction. A trio of University of Toronto scholars, led by psychologist Maja Djikic, report that people who have just read a short ...

1 day ago
Views: 110 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 3
Skip Intro
Miss Utah USA Gives Worst Pageant Answer Since Miss South Carolina
Dye her hair blonde and she's got a job at Fox News. Question: "A recent report shows that in 40 percent of American families with children, women are the primary earners, yet they continue to earn less than men. What does this say about society?" Marissa Powell: "I think we can relate this back to education, and how we are ... continuing to try ...

1 day, 20 hours ago
Views: 413 • Comments: 6
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
 Frank says:

In the fight between you and the world, back the world.