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1 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:10:18am

The gun manufacturers are pure poison. This coupled with the transformation of ignorant conservatives into hate-driven radical-reactionaries is very worrying.

2 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:22:34am

As uncomfortable as we can be after mas shootings and the tragedy they are-Target shooting and hunting remain family events, particularly in rural lands. That means the kids get taught many outdoor skills including gun safety for handling, hunting or target shooting. Water/boat safety for fishing. etc. Fire safety for those campfires. Wildfire prevention.

Like it or not the light recoil (civilian .223 or milspec 5.56) and smallish size of sporting AR guns makes them a pretty good choice for teens, women and anyone slight in build. The adjustable stock for example is a big plus for a shared rifle.

As a kid I was taught to use a hunting rifle for sport. Grandpa had a Springfield 30.06. Huge recoil, huge noise, and not one bit more accurate than a target configured AR. I hated it. That springfield put me off rifle target shooting as too loud and painful. After I inherited it, I gave it away.

3 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:12:16am

re: #2 Political Atheist

Like it or not the light recoil (civilian .223 or milspec 5.56) and smallish size of sporting AR guns makes them a pretty good choice for teens, women and anyone slight in build. The adjustable stock for example is a big plus for a shared rifle.

Good grief man, these aren’t Super Soakers.

4 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:21:12am

re: #3 dragonath

No of course not. But how old do you think a rural raised person should be to hunt or target shoot?

5 Skip Intro  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:16:32am
“Who knows?” it said. “Maybe you’ll find a Bushmaster AR-15 under your tree some frosty Christmas morning!”

And if not, maybe you can borrow one from your friends and shoot your parents for being such total dicks.

6 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:36:48am

re: #4 Political Atheist

No of course not. But how old do you think a rural raised person should be to hunt or target shoot?

I’m against perpetuating this market at any age. And that’s beside the point- It’d be an insane choice for a beginner. The .223 isn’t even legal for hunting in many states.

7 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:58:10am

re: #6 dragonath

I’m against perpetuating this market at any age. And that’s beside the point- It’d be an insane choice for a beginner. The .223 isn’t even legal for hunting in many states.

“This market” being semi auto rifles with a removable magazine? Or just that model because it has a military appearance?

So in your opinion the shooting sports and hunting should have no publications, web sites, etc. at all. ?! Okay, I understand but that’s a position far beyond the most strident gun control group. Way past what our President even contemplates. The .223 is an excellent cartridge to get started in rifle target shooting.

The ,223 is illegal for certain hunting because it is too small and weak for sizable game. Or thought to be so. Which is what makes it right for smaller game and target shooting beyond 25 or 50 yards. No need of a lot of horsepower to put a hole in a paper target. Nor bruise a shoulder.

8 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:40:37am

re: #7 Political Atheist

Yes, I think they are a bad choice for hunting. But this thread isn’t about that.

So in your opinion the shooting sports and hunting should have no publications, web sites, etc. at all. ?! Okay, I understand but that’s a position far beyond the most strident gun control group. Way past what our President even contemplates. The .223 is an excellent cartridge to get started in rifle target shooting.

That’s a straw man. I’ve you’ve read my posts in the past, you would have noticed that I am an advocate for Pennsylvania Game News, Field and Stream, and stuff like the old Hunter-Trader-Trapper magazine.

The magazine linked above goes way beyond any kind of respectable hobbyist publication and enters the realm of pure gun glorification and commercialization. “Glocks are for Girls?” - I mean, what the fuck is that? I reject it utterly.

The ,223 is illegal for certain hunting because it is too small and weak for sizable game. Or thought to be so. Which is what makes it right for smaller game and target shooting beyond 25 or 50 yards. No need of a lot of horsepower to put a hole in a paper target. Nor bruise a shoulder.

Or is thought to be so. Come on man. I don’t know what kind of anecdotal evidence you’re relying on, but .223 is absolutely borderline for large game.

Again, this thread was never about target shooting. I have no idea what you are trying to defend here because I sure as hell don’t need a light assault rifle to shoot a hole in a piece of paper at 100 yards.

9 stabby  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:02:02pm

If you go to “juniorshooters.net” with scripting turned off you see the following google bait at the top of the page… given this sort of crap I would NEVER go there without good anti-virus software on

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10 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:07:42pm

re: #8 dragonath

My apologies for any misunderstanding. No straw man intended. This phrase= “I’m against perpetuating this market at any age.” is pretty broad. Made me think you object to the publications at any age. I respect your actual meaning as corrected.

Do you see the shooting sports as an adults only sport? It’s a long held tradition of course is that it’s a family sport. The young hunt in most any culture that has hunting. Maybe not with guns of course.

A young teen can not own an AR or a handgun. But a parent can buy one for the kids safety training and use at the range or hunting. He might put it under the tree with an understanding registration / transfer and true legal ownership has to wait for the law. That’s how it works. TP has the outrage dialed up a bit here. I have taught lot of people how to shoot, some kids as young as 13 or so. I don’t get the outrage at bringing a young responsible kid into the shooting sports.

I went looking around about the .223 and hunting. The states are literally & figuratively all over the map. (yes pun intended) It’s a small game cartridge IMO, from the specs, though I don’t hunt. It’s not hard to find people that make a good argument to allow it for deer at reasonable range. There is lot’s of hunting besides deer. I think you had just said hunting. So I was not thinking about deer and larger. I was thinking from small game up to whatever upper size limit might be appropriate.

.223 is significantly less powerful than the real military round for the AR-15/M4 series, the 5.56mm of the same shape and caliber but more pressure, enough to possibly burst a .223 gun.

So what is your argument about .223 hunting, or target shooting? The rifle range where I serve on the BOD allows shooting from 25 to 800 yards. Some choose to target shoot way the heck out there and that means we see some really powerful stuff being used for a sport. Long range rifle target shooting. Unless you dislike guns, it’s a lot of fun.

11 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:37:24pm

re: #10 Political Atheist

I learned to hunt at 12. I’m against the use of semi-automatic weapons at .223, not only because it is illegal in my state, but an inexperienced hunter shooting multiple rounds at that caliber is a recipe for inhumane, unsportsmanlike hunting.


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