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1 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:19:04pm

Wingnut heads exploding in 3…2…1

2 SpikeDad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:21:21pm

It will mean zip unless the BSA national organization PROHIBITS the discrimination of gays by all chapters. That’s a far different thing than just saying they’ll “let” gays into chapters since they’re not prohibiting the chapters themselves from discriminating (which many will do).

What the hell are you (Ted Striker) still doing in the Scouts if you have such feeling that you are willing to post this?

And it’s still going to be OK to keep out atheists?

Not impressed one bit.

3 JeffFX  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:23:52pm

I’m a former scout, and would love for them to stop being hate-filled bigots

4 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:24:34pm

Of course they still get to discriminate against us atheists with their pledge.

5 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:45:46pm

re: #2 SpikeDad

re: #3 JeffFX

re: #4 Randall Gross

Baby steps, people, baby steps; Rome wasn’t built in a day.

I’ve stayed in Scouting these many years because I think that they are more positives than negatives and my brother understands this; boys (and girls also, if we’re talking about Venturing and Learning for Life), IMO, can benefit from the structure, camaraderie, and opportunities that Scouting can provide.

As for the comparison of the exclusion of gays to the exclusion of atheists in the BSA, one of these is not like the other; a person can choose to believe or not believe in a Creator (contrary to some, the BSA does not require belief in the Christian God to be a member; there are Scouting units affiliated with almost every major religion out there), but one cannot choose whether or not they’re born gay, IMNSHO. To that end, if you’re an atheist, you can either make the choice to not follow the Scout Law and Oath (as they are currently written) to the letter as far as being Reverent is concerned and remain in Scouting or you can find an organization that is more aligned with your beliefs; good or bad, that’s just the current state of affairs.

Believe or not, as far as a “religious test” goes, Scouting is very relaxed compared to some more fundamentalist Christian-centered youth organizations, such as Royal Ambassadors and Royal Rangers.

6 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:18:38pm

re: #4 Randall Gross

Of course they still get to discriminate against us atheists with their pledge.

My atheist brother and his atheist son flew under the radar. I don’t know whether they faked it, lied, crossed their fingers, or what, but they didn’t find it too odious to participate.

I did razz him about it a little.

7 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:07:17pm

re: #6 wrenchwench

My atheist brother and his atheist son flew under the radar. I don’t know whether they faked it, lied, crossed their fingers, or what, but they didn’t find it too odious to participate.

I did razz him about it a little.

Let me be clear, to all atheists/agnostics in attendance: my personal opinion is that, while the Scout Law and Oath do contain a pledge to keep a duty to (one’s) God/Creator and to be Reverent, I can and would look the other way if an atheist/agnostic forgoes that requirement. As long as they are of good character and do their best to fulfill the other obligations of the Law and Oath (as well as the Slogan and Motto) and to serve their communities well, I would do this, because we leaders should be in this to build young people up and to give them opportunities they might not otherwise have, not to cut them down and cast them out. Atheism and agnosticism does not mean a lack of moral fiber; some of the most ethical people have been atheists or agnostics.

What local councils and National doesn’t know in that sort of situation won’t hurt them, despite what the fundamentalists inside and outside the BSA might say.

8 JeffFX  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:36:44pm

re: #4 Randall Gross

Of course they still get to discriminate against us atheists with their pledge.

How about those of us who understand that the supernatural is pure story-telling? Understanding that gods aren’t real is just one tiny part of a reality-based worldview, and doesn’t need the special focus it’s so often given.

I suppose the scouts don’t like anyone who lives in reality.

9 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:34:41pm

I detest the Boy Scouts simply because they are a private group when it’s convenient, yet demand special privileged access to public resources. Even my local City (Sunnyvale, CA) allows Boy Scouts to lead the pledge of allegiance at council meetings, in uniform.

When I asked if I could lead the pledge in a Star Trek uniform, my request was denied. Can someone explain the difference?

My preference is they start being the private organization they claim to be. Just like the KKK, the NRA, or the Rosicrucians. And stop having Jamborees on military bases, demanding special access to schools, or having Congress issues special commemorative coins in their honor (with a bill sponsored by “libertarian” Ron Paul!).

Then they can choose their members using any criteria they wish.


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 Frank says:

I feel it's better to sing about these things ourselves and perform them with the people who it happened to than to have some journalist one day say 'then in 1971, one time when they were at the mudshark hotel...' But people have problems with things of a glandular nature in connection with things of a musical nature. They say why, music is way up here, and glands are way down there and they can't get 'em together, but then they are hypocritical because they take a band that doesn't sing about such things directly and couches their language a little and does it with a little choreography and say that that's great and that's real rock and roll. I maintain that there's no difference, we're just honest enough to get up and say 'this is this and that's that and here you are and respond to it' and the response is 'why... I'm hip, but of course I am offended'.