Pages

12 comments

Jump to bottom
1 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:49:33pm

It wasn’t until recently and a friends younger brothers situation that I really thought about laws and fines and penalty’s and how relative they are to ones own personal fortunes.
A more financially set person will not be phased by speeding fines or tickets but some one who struggles financially for whatever reason can really have their entire life damaged or put on hold by it.

It seems fines and financial penalty’s really only punish people who are less fortunate.

It reminds me of something I once read a long time ago, from a French writer, something along the lines of “In France they believe in equality of the classes, It is against the law for both a poor and rich person to beg for food on the streets”

2 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:54:14pm

It is certainly dumb to jail people who can’t pay, but if we are honest we should admit that many don’t because they spent the money on something else that they didn’t need. There needs to be a financial accounting in such cases.

3 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:01:01pm

re: #2 Achilles Tang

It is certainly dumb to jail people who can’t pay, but if we are honest we should admit that many don’t because they spent the money on something else that they didn’t need. There needs to be a financial accounting in such cases.

Yes, but you can’t count every nickel and dime spent on gum or beer against a person. We all buy items other people think are ridiculous.

Where do you draw the line?

I see posts on facebook that say, “if you can afford tattoos and nose jewelry you don’t need welfare.” I think that is making a value judgement that wouldn’t hold up under scrutiny.

4 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:50:24pm

re: #2 Achilles Tang

I don’t give a shit if someone wants to buy their kids a birthday present for their birthday over a fine or if they decide to pay a parking fine over paying for their seizure medicine. Either way doesn’t immediately affect me. What I do care about is these financial penalties ONLY punish less financially fortunate people. Not everyone who is in a bad financial situation is their due to irresponsible living.

5 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:52:04pm

re: #3 FemNaziBitch

Yes, but you can’t count every nickel and dime spent on gum or beer against a person. We all buy items other people think are ridiculous.

Where do you draw the line?

I see posts on facebook that say, “if you can afford tattoos and nose jewelry you don’t need welfare.” I think that is making a value judgement that wouldn’t hold up under scrutiny.

Respectfully, that sounds like an excuse to do nothing if taken literally.

For a start, those who can’t pay can appeal to the court in a timely manner with reasons and take their chances, without simply ignoring the fine and then saying months later (often when arrested on another violation) that they didn’t pay because they didn’t have the money (and didn’t think it was a big deal).

If people can’t pay the electric bill, or the mortgage, or the credit card, they do have an opportunity to work out a payment schedule. Why should a warrant for a minor offense be any different?

Finally, I am getting close to 70 and I have, so far never had even a parking ticket (that I can remember anyway), but if I did I paid my debt and have no warrants.

Even while I don’t agree with jail for such matters, I question why I should have sympathy for those who cannot follow the simplest of laws, and then expect to have them ignored.

6 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:02:17pm

re: #4 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown

I don’t give a shit if someone wants to buy their kids a birthday present for their birthday over a fine or if they decide to pay a parking fine over paying for their seizure medicine. Either way doesn’t immediately affect me. What I do care about is these financial penalties ONLY punish less financially fortunate people. Not everyone who is in a bad financial situation is their due to irresponsible living.

I don’t give a shit for someone who can’t follow simple rules, and not bother to explain extenuating circumstances instead of waiting for the next arrest on another minor violation that could have been avoided in the first place.

Also, I have seen plenty of “civil” debt issues in my time, and I have seen no examples of arrest and jail for not paying a “debt collector” for a civil debt. The plaintiff can ask for judgments against income or liens against assets, or liens against those who may buy those prior assets, but I have never heard of jail for person A who doesn’t pay person B (who is not a governments). That is why we have so many lawyers.

7 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:07:33pm

re: #4 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown

I don’t give a shit if someone wants to buy their kids a birthday present for their birthday over a fine or if they decide to pay a parking fine over paying for their seizure medicine. Either way doesn’t immediately affect me. What I do care about is these financial penalties ONLY punish less financially fortunate people. Not everyone who is in a bad financial situation is their due to irresponsible living.

A couple years ago, NPR carried a a story from Finland that answered your issue. There, a fine schedule matches the offense to your income. The case was the director of Nokia, who landed the world’s largest speeding ticket, 116,000 Euros.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk…]

8 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:08:31pm

re: #6 Achilles Tang

I am not talking about Jail I am talking about fines and how they affect people differently depending on their situation.
And I don’t give a shit what you think about people you feel are beneath your awesome ability to follow simple rules.

I do have respect for your opinion and I know it has been raised before I just can’t agree.

9 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 6:01:49pm

Shrugs. We live in a society where your value as a human being is the same as the amount of money you make. That’s not a big surprise in a society ruled by economic determinism.

10 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 6:12:01pm

re: #8 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown

I am not talking about Jail I am talking about fines and how they affect people differently depending on their situation.
And I don’t give a shit what you think about people you feel are beneath your awesome ability to follow simple rules.

I do have respect for your opinion and I know it has been raised before I just can’t agree.

Well, thanks for the respect, and also with respect the OP is about jailing people for debt. My point, in essence, is that nobody is jailed simply for being in debt, so far. They are jailed for ignoring the law and the system of law. As to simple rules, yes, I do feel I am above people who regularly, as opposed to by accident, violate simple laws; and yes, I think fining them is preferential to jailing them, and if you disagree I can only assume that you allow those to do as they please; or would you substitute lashes perchance?

11 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 7:26:05pm

re: #10 Achilles Tang

If people are jailed for ignoring the system of law I do not see a problem with that. I do see a problem with set monetary fines as punishment when it does not punish someone who can well afford it. I also have a problem with someone suggesting poorer people need to have their finances scrutinized because they probably are spending money on things they don’t “need”.
You would never need to scrutinize the needless spending habits of the trophy wife of a millionaire who would have to pay the same fine because, well it would just be paid.

And by the way, I would only entertain the idea of lashings if I could dole them out personally and as long as it was consensual of course.

12 Achilles Tang  Mon, Feb 11, 2013 6:11:41am

re: #11 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown

I think you miss my point. Fines are the way we punish infractions of law. They are not issued based on a person’s wealth, which is unknown at that time. The followup when that person ignores the fine is the issue at stake, and I have said as much already.

One method that could be considered is what they do in Sweden, where fines are called “Day Fines”. The fine is based on the daily earnings of the person fined and the number of days fined depends on the circumstances. A millionaire would pay a lot.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

TwitterFacebook

Turn off all ads for a full year by subscribing!
Take advantage of our yearly subscription, and save 50% off the normal subscription price! One-year ad-free subscriptions are just $59.95. Turn off all ads for a full year by subscribing now and save!
Read more...

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Articles

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Pages

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form
LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.

Last updated: 2015-04-18 5:26 pm PDT

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate
GotNewsDotCom identifies wrong woman as wife of Garland, TX, shooter
@ChuckCJohnson 's pitiful excuse for a news blog once again has flunked Journalism 101 by identifying the wrong woman as the wife of Nadir Soofi, one of the two gunmen shot dead in Garland, TX, Sunday. The woman identified by ...

2 hours, 18 minutes ago
Views: 118 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 6 • Rating: 1
FemNaziBitch
Carly Fiorina’s Stance on Abortion Is Set in Stone & She Believes Most Americans Will Agree
Now that the GOP has its first official female candidate for the 2016 presidential nomination, she is now under our collective gaze. While the media will surely be dissecting Carly Fiorina inside out, let's start with one of the ...

8 hours, 55 minutes ago
Views: 173 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 1
Thanos
What Was the Venus de Milo Doing With Her Arms?
The Venus de Milo is a paradox: the embodiment of beauty, yet disfigured. And she is a puzzle, gazing serenely at something we cannot see, something once held, we assume, by her missing arms. "La Vénus de Milo est ...

19 hours, 11 minutes ago
Views: 184 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Cheechako
Biologists Report First Wild Bison Birth in Alaska in at Least a Century
Suzanna CaldwellAlaska News DispatchMay 1, 2015 Biologists monitoring the new Innoko River wood bison herd got a pleasant surprise last month during an aerial survey of the animals: a bison calf, the first born in the wild in at least ...

3 days, 7 hours ago
Views: 283 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 4
Romantic Heretic
The United States of Amnesia
My news aggregator found this interesting article about how the US has no history. Which brings this cartoon to mind.

3 days, 19 hours ago
Views: 350 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 3
Lumberhead
David Simon on Baltimore’s Anguish
It's long but definitely worth the time. Simon sends some flak in Martin O'Malley's direction and that will probably get some attention due to presidential politics. I thought the following passage was important to highlight but the whole thing is ...

5 days, 14 hours ago
Views: 390 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 15 • Rating: 4
No Country For Old Haters
Partridge Family’s Youngest Daughter Dies — Suzanne Crough Dead at 52
The youngest "Partridge Family" star Suzanne Crough died Monday at her home in Nevada ... TMZ has learned. Crough starred as the tambourine-shaking daughter Tracy Partridge ... during the classic sitcom's run from 1970 to 1974. She was 52 ...

6 days, 10 hours ago
Views: 517 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 0
palmerskiss
Jonah Goldberg’s Dog Is A Manchurian Liberal Plant
@JonahNRO your dog is obviously a liberal facist homo-feminazi — palmerkiss (@palmerkiss) April 27, 2015 I admit, I'd buy his dog a drink and share war stories. Secretly hoping it's a Schnauzer.

1 week ago
Views: 700 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 50 • Rating: 1
EiMitch
Cracked: 5 Things You Won’t (Want to) Believe I Saw Guarding US Nukes
cracked.com If there happens to be anyone reading LGF who opposes nuclear disarmament for any reason, you probably need to know that our doomsday arsenal is less secure than a revolving door in a prison. I'm just saying that we're ...

1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 622 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Higgs Boson's Mate
Sleeping Bear Dunes shipwrecks spotted by helicopter patrol
LEELANAU COUNTY, MI -- A Northern Michigan Coast Guard helicopter crew on routine patrol captured some excellent images of the shipwrecks that dot the waters off Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore. The Traverse City-based crew posted six photos on ...

1 week, 6 days ago
Views: 703 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 2 • Rating: 6
 Frank says:

Stupidity is the basic building block of the universe.