Pages

Jump to bottom

7 comments

1 Destro  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 8:58:28am

Here is what happened that stopped Japan from joining Hitler and invading the USSR from the east (or the west from the Japanese view) while Hitler invaded from the West (the east from Hitler’s view) and the two Axis empires meeting in the middle and moving onto take British India.

The Japanese attacked Zhukov’s Siberian army in the late 30s. And got decimated.

It scared the Japanese to death about the dealing with the USSR - info they should have shared with their nutso ally Hitler but didn’t because the defeat was so bad they tried not mentioning it (and Hitler would not have listened anyway).

Those Soviet-Japanese battles in Mongolia pretty much sealed the fate of the Japanese AND the Germans. That is the true “butterfly effect” of WW2 where a small distant and seemingly unrelated battle (the butterfly wings of the theory) snowballed into the eventual defeat of the Axis powers.

2 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 9:07:33am

I got a book a couple of years ago that dealt with that subject, along with numerous others.

The author of the essays in the book about how the Axis could have won said the cause was the same in both Germany’s and Japan’s case: racism. Whether it was refusing to treat people like Poles and Ukrainians as people, or treating the people of other Asian nations as serfs, in both cases they lost a tremendous amount of goodwill and manpower for both industry and their armed forces.

Stupid of them, but thank the Lord they were that stupid. It would be an unpleasant world if they had even achieved a draw.

3 Destro  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 9:17:47am

re: #2 Romantic Heretic

I got a book a couple of years ago that dealt with that subject, along with numerous others.

The author of the essays in the book about how the Axis could have won said the cause was the same in both Germany’s and Japan’s case: racism. Whether it was refusing to treat people like Poles and Ukrainians as people, or treating the people of other Asian nations as serfs, in both cases they lost a tremendous amount of goodwill and manpower for both industry and their armed forces.

Stupid of them, but thank the Lord they were that stupid. It would be an unpleasant world if they had even achieved a draw.

That is true, the ideology of the Germans and Japanese was one where the people they conquered were to be serfs/slaves and not allies - a million words have been written about how the Germans were greeted as liberators by the Soviet people at first and that the Red Army that surrendered along with her officers actually thought they would be turned around and used against Stalin.

The Japanese wanted a co-prosperity sphere and talked about freeing Asians from European domination but treated the people they conquered even worse.

I think that was because Germany and Japan were late to the empire game. The British and the Europeans in general did treat conquered non-Europeans very badly. For example, in the wake of the mutiny of Sepoy’s the British laid waste to Indian rebel strong holds and really killed a lot of the natives but right after the fighting was done decided to treat the Indians way better and to make sure that no further cause would be given for an armed uprising. This in the wake of losing the American colonies. So by experience from their failures the British became better and more humane colonizers and empire builders.

The late arrivals to European empire like the Germans and Japanese did not have that learning curve and of course also had a toxic ideology fueling the need for empire on the quick (the Europeans kind of stumbled into empire over time so there was no ideology that developed for conquest that was as toxic for the British or French with this hunger for empire).

The USA also was one of those lat arrivals to colonialism but unlike the Germans and Japanese the Americans really did not want colonies or an empire - they just felt they needed one because of the need to have coal stations for world spanning fleets to protect overseas raw material imports like rubber and the like for the American manufacturing boom.

4 Destro  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 9:24:40am

re: #2 Romantic Heretic

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Wiki article about this Mongolian battle few know about in the West.

Also note that the Soviets took Japanese prisoners - a shocking thing for the Japanese military to contemplate. The Japanese forces were literally shell shocked by Zhukov’s tactics and became encircled and were destroyed and those that survived surrendered.

I also think this battle is the reason modern China, with all it’s new wealth and power does not contemplate a war with the Russians for Siberia (nukes of course help that decision, also).

5 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 12:02:36pm

re: #2 Romantic Heretic

I got a book a couple of years ago that dealt with that subject, along with numerous others.

The author of the essays in the book about how the Axis could have won said the cause was the same in both Germany’s and Japan’s case: racism. Whether it was refusing to treat people like Poles and Ukrainians as people, or treating the people of other Asian nations as serfs, in both cases they lost a tremendous amount of goodwill and manpower for both industry and their armed forces.

Stupid of them, but thank the Lord they were that stupid. It would be an unpleasant world if they had even achieved a draw.

WW2 could not in any realistic situation I can think of end in a draw.

It would always end with nukes, decisively and unless the axis managed to invade America we were probably gonna get those nukes first.

6 Robur  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 2:08:48pm

They also had a nuclear weapons program and had one test that was promising. Germany had sent several U-Boats with fissionable material along with jet technology and many vessels of mercury wich now lay at the bottom of the North sea. Germanys heavy water program had too many setbacks including various missions to destroy their plants.

7 JeffFX  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 2:12:55pm

re: #1 Destro

The Japanese attacked Zhukov’s Siberian army in the late 30s. And got decimated.

Losing 1 out of 10 fighters facing the USSR doesn’t sound so bad, but I believe it was actually a lot worse than that.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Nearly 900 Jewelry Businesses Closed in 2017 There was good and bad news for the jewelry industry in 2017. The bad news: Last year, a lot of jewelry companies shut their doors. The good news: Far fewer closed than the year before. According to the Jewelers ...
Unshaken Defiance
1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Views: 56 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Improving the World of Sportsblog.timesunion.com Billy Joel once said, “The good old days weren’t always good, tomorrow’s not as bad as it seems.” From one native Long Islander to another let me just say, “Billy, you may be on to something.” I’m not one ...
rhoffman
1 day, 2 hours ago
Views: 159 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 1
Comments: 0
: 1
First Footage From the New Kodak Super 8 Film Camera Can't wait to get my hands on one. Probably gonna rent 'cause $2500 or more. But what a great look. One of Kodak’s goals is to make this new Kodak Super 8 camera “as easy to use as any ...
Unshaken Defiance
2 days, 17 hours ago
Views: 314 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Grandparents Say ‘God Called’ on Perris Couple to Have So Many Children The couple accused of shackling their 13 children in filthy conditions in a Perris home were deeply religious and believed God had called on them to have so many kids, according to the grandparents of the children.David and Louise ...
Thanos
3 days, 5 hours ago
Views: 332 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
How Russia Says It Swatted Down a Drone Swarm in Syria On the night of January 5, a swarm of explosives-laden small drones, apparently controlled by Syrian rebels, attacked two Russian bases in western Syria, the Kremlin confirmed on Thursday. Authorities claim that Russian defenses destroyed or disabled all of ...
Thanos
5 days, 3 hours ago
Views: 667 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 3 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Woman at Center of Greitens Story Asks for Privacy; Greitens Asks Lawmakers for Forgiveness The woman’s plea for privacy came as Greitens was contacting state lawmakers to apologize for the scandal, which has stalled action in the Legislature and upended Missouri’s political world. Five Republican lawmakers told the Post-Dispatch that they received calls ...
Thanos
5 days, 4 hours ago
Views: 629 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Hawaii Missile False Alarm Triggers Shock, Blame and Apologies Residents and visitors in Hawaii have been recalling the shock of a false missile alarm, with many saying they thought they were going to die. The alert of an incoming ballistic missile was sent wrongly on Saturday morning by ...
Thanos
5 days, 5 hours ago
Views: 559 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
L.A. ‘Swatting’ Suspect Charged With Manslaughter in Kansas Over Hoax Call That Led to Fatal Police Shooting he Los Angeles man at the center of what is believed to be the first fatal “swatting” incident in the U.S. has been charged with manslaughter in connection with a hoax phone call that led to a deadly shooting ...
Thanos
6 days, 5 hours ago
Views: 877 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Marvel Studios’ Black Panther - Rise TV Spot► Subscribe to Marvel: bit.ly Follow Marvel on Twitter: ‪@marvelLike Marvel on FaceBook: ‪facebook.com For even more news, stay tuned to:Tumblr: ‪marvelentertainment.tumblr.comInstagram: instagram.comGoogle+: ‪plus.google.comPinterest: ‪pinterest.com
Thanos
1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 1,253 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Sydney Nearly Breaks Heat Record With 116-Degree Weather SYDNEY -- Dangerous heat is roasting parts of Australia with temperatures that haven't been seen in decades. The temperature in Sydney hit an almost 80-year high of 47.3 degrees Celsius, or 117 Fahrenheit, on Sunday -- a sharp contrast ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,260 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 1
Comments: 1
: 1