Pages

Jump to bottom

7 comments

1 Destro  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 8:58:28am

Here is what happened that stopped Japan from joining Hitler and invading the USSR from the east (or the west from the Japanese view) while Hitler invaded from the West (the east from Hitler’s view) and the two Axis empires meeting in the middle and moving onto take British India.

The Japanese attacked Zhukov’s Siberian army in the late 30s. And got decimated.

It scared the Japanese to death about the dealing with the USSR - info they should have shared with their nutso ally Hitler but didn’t because the defeat was so bad they tried not mentioning it (and Hitler would not have listened anyway).

Those Soviet-Japanese battles in Mongolia pretty much sealed the fate of the Japanese AND the Germans. That is the true “butterfly effect” of WW2 where a small distant and seemingly unrelated battle (the butterfly wings of the theory) snowballed into the eventual defeat of the Axis powers.

2 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 9:07:33am

I got a book a couple of years ago that dealt with that subject, along with numerous others.

The author of the essays in the book about how the Axis could have won said the cause was the same in both Germany’s and Japan’s case: racism. Whether it was refusing to treat people like Poles and Ukrainians as people, or treating the people of other Asian nations as serfs, in both cases they lost a tremendous amount of goodwill and manpower for both industry and their armed forces.

Stupid of them, but thank the Lord they were that stupid. It would be an unpleasant world if they had even achieved a draw.

3 Destro  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 9:17:47am

re: #2 Romantic Heretic

I got a book a couple of years ago that dealt with that subject, along with numerous others.

The author of the essays in the book about how the Axis could have won said the cause was the same in both Germany’s and Japan’s case: racism. Whether it was refusing to treat people like Poles and Ukrainians as people, or treating the people of other Asian nations as serfs, in both cases they lost a tremendous amount of goodwill and manpower for both industry and their armed forces.

Stupid of them, but thank the Lord they were that stupid. It would be an unpleasant world if they had even achieved a draw.

That is true, the ideology of the Germans and Japanese was one where the people they conquered were to be serfs/slaves and not allies - a million words have been written about how the Germans were greeted as liberators by the Soviet people at first and that the Red Army that surrendered along with her officers actually thought they would be turned around and used against Stalin.

The Japanese wanted a co-prosperity sphere and talked about freeing Asians from European domination but treated the people they conquered even worse.

I think that was because Germany and Japan were late to the empire game. The British and the Europeans in general did treat conquered non-Europeans very badly. For example, in the wake of the mutiny of Sepoy’s the British laid waste to Indian rebel strong holds and really killed a lot of the natives but right after the fighting was done decided to treat the Indians way better and to make sure that no further cause would be given for an armed uprising. This in the wake of losing the American colonies. So by experience from their failures the British became better and more humane colonizers and empire builders.

The late arrivals to European empire like the Germans and Japanese did not have that learning curve and of course also had a toxic ideology fueling the need for empire on the quick (the Europeans kind of stumbled into empire over time so there was no ideology that developed for conquest that was as toxic for the British or French with this hunger for empire).

The USA also was one of those lat arrivals to colonialism but unlike the Germans and Japanese the Americans really did not want colonies or an empire - they just felt they needed one because of the need to have coal stations for world spanning fleets to protect overseas raw material imports like rubber and the like for the American manufacturing boom.

4 Destro  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 9:24:40am

re: #2 Romantic Heretic

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Wiki article about this Mongolian battle few know about in the West.

Also note that the Soviets took Japanese prisoners - a shocking thing for the Japanese military to contemplate. The Japanese forces were literally shell shocked by Zhukov’s tactics and became encircled and were destroyed and those that survived surrendered.

I also think this battle is the reason modern China, with all it’s new wealth and power does not contemplate a war with the Russians for Siberia (nukes of course help that decision, also).

5 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 12:02:36pm

re: #2 Romantic Heretic

I got a book a couple of years ago that dealt with that subject, along with numerous others.

The author of the essays in the book about how the Axis could have won said the cause was the same in both Germany’s and Japan’s case: racism. Whether it was refusing to treat people like Poles and Ukrainians as people, or treating the people of other Asian nations as serfs, in both cases they lost a tremendous amount of goodwill and manpower for both industry and their armed forces.

Stupid of them, but thank the Lord they were that stupid. It would be an unpleasant world if they had even achieved a draw.

WW2 could not in any realistic situation I can think of end in a draw.

It would always end with nukes, decisively and unless the axis managed to invade America we were probably gonna get those nukes first.

6 Robur  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 2:08:48pm

They also had a nuclear weapons program and had one test that was promising. Germany had sent several U-Boats with fissionable material along with jet technology and many vessels of mercury wich now lay at the bottom of the North sea. Germanys heavy water program had too many setbacks including various missions to destroy their plants.

7 JeffFX  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 2:12:55pm

re: #1 Destro

The Japanese attacked Zhukov’s Siberian army in the late 30s. And got decimated.

Losing 1 out of 10 fighters facing the USSR doesn’t sound so bad, but I believe it was actually a lot worse than that.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Recent PagesClick to refresh
Missouri ‘Witch Hunt Hearings’ Modeled on Anti-Choice Congressional Crusade - Rewire “They say that a lot in Missouri,” state Rep. Stacey Newman (D) told Rewire in an interview at the Democratic National Convention last month. Newman is a longtime abortion rights advocate who proposed legislation that would subject firearms purchases ...
Thanos
21 hours, 1 minute ago
Views: 229 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Charter Schools: Last Week Tonight With John Oliver (HBO) Charter schools are privately run, publicly funded, and irregularly regulated. John Oliver explores why they aren’t at all like pizzerias. Connect with Last Week Tonight online...Subscribe to the Last Week Tonight YouTube channel for more almost news as it ...
Thanos
1 day, 2 hours ago
Views: 256 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 25 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 3
Comments: 0
: 3
Deadly Earthquake in Italy: What We Know – The 6.2. magnitude earthquake struck central Italy, near Rieti, shortly after 3:30 a.m. local time and was followed by several aftershocks. – At least 37 people have been killed and dozens are missing, according to Italy's civil protection ...
Thanos
1 day, 6 hours ago
Views: 244 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 7 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 2
Comments: 0
: 2
EpiPen’s Steady Price Increases Masked Until Deductibles Rose The maker of the life-saving allergy shot EpiPen is the new poster child for exorbitant drug price increases, as high-profile members of Congress, doctors and consumers lash out over huge price increases since 2009. Mylan’s EpiPens are used to ...
Thanos
1 day, 20 hours ago
Views: 219 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 1
Comments: 0
: 1
Few Pastors Have Been Asked to Preside at Same-Sex Weddings - and No One Has Been Forced Americans United had a little fun about two months ago with the Religious Right’s claim that if marriage equality became the law of the land, pastors would be forced to preside at same-sex weddings. We produced a special website ...
Thanos
1 day, 22 hours ago
Views: 232 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 16 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 3
Comments: 0
: 3
A Tribe Called Red - R.E.D. Ft. Yasiin Bey, Narcy & Black Bear Pre-Order The Album! smarturl.itStream on Spotify: spoti.fi-Director: The Halluci NationLocation: Cape Town, SAActors: Narcy, Yasiin Bey and members of the Halluci NationProducer: The Halluci Nation--A Tribe Called Red Links:Website: atribecalledred.comTwitter: @atribecalledredFacebook: facebook.comInstagram: instagram.com--Yasiin Bey Links:acountrycalledearth.comFacebook: facebook.comTwitter: @CalledEarth--Narcy:wearethemedium.comFacebook: facebook.comTwitter: @TheNarcicyst ...
teleskiguy
2 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 263 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 9 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 6
Comments: 0
: 6
Melania Trump Threatens to Sue News Outlets Melania Trump has threatened to sue The Daily Mail, Politico and at least eight other news outlets for defamation, her lawyer says. Trump, the wife of the Republican presidential nominee, has placed The Daily Mail and other news organizations ...
Thanos
2 days, 16 hours ago
Views: 396 • Comments: 2 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 35 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 4
Comments: 0
: 4
A Tale of Two TV Shows: “Rectify,” “Lethal Weapon,” and the Battle to Be Seen in the Age of Peak TV In the years of "Peak TV" if you like a show you better advertise for it before it gets canceled... Here’s where we get to fall TV’s big quandary: Statistics show that a significant portion of the audience is ...
Thanos
3 days, 19 hours ago
Views: 1,072 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 37 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Sunday ShowsTonight there are three things on that are worthy of Tivo in my estimation: Ray Donovan - ShowtimeRoadies - ShowtimeFear the Walking Dead - AMC - Season Debut Here is what's on Countdown to start up through the end of ...
Thanos
4 days, 2 hours ago
Views: 972 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
CNS - Ken Starr Leaves Faculty Post at Baylor University WACO, Texas (CN) - Former Baylor University president and chancellor Ken Starr quit his law school faculty position Friday, severing his final ties with the college in the wake of a damning review of how school officials bungled sexual ...
Thanos
4 days, 2 hours ago
Views: 1,279 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0