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1 Destro  Wed, Feb 20, 2013 9:35:01pm

British Christians are really heretics anyways. No big loss.

2 sagehen  Wed, Feb 20, 2013 11:17:31pm

To put that number in perspective — in the 2001 census, 390,000 Brits declared their religion to be Jedi (all converts, presumably, I doubt any of them were born and raised such).

3 JeffFX  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 5:38:41am

re: #2 sagehen

Most British people seem to have moved past religion years ago, so it wouldn’t take much at all for Islam to overtake Christianity there, but it won’t ever dominate the culture. You can’t inflict oppressive religion on a population that no longer believes in gods or the divine right of leaders.

4 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 9:57:32am

re: #1 Destro

British Christians are really heretics anyways. No big loss.

How does the concept of ‘loss’ even enter into it?

5 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 10:04:53am

British women aren’t the only ones converting to Islam ‘in droves’.

Hispanic American immigrants increasingly finding home is Islam

If women in a civil society choose to convert to a certain religion, I assume it’s because they find something they like in it. I don’t see any signs of ‘oppression’ in either the article at the top or the one I posted. From the one at the top:

Most converts have a hard time explaining their decision to family members holding preconceived ideas about Islam as a faith that oppresses womanhood

Maybe it’s the preconceived notions that are oppressive.

/I’m such a bad atheist…

6 Destro  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 11:27:24am

re: #4 wrenchwench

How does the concept of ‘loss’ even enter into it?

It was a sarcastic remark. The Church of England has of course been lost since Henry the murderer founded his own church.

7 JeffFX  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 12:30:04pm

re: #6 Destro

Was that a sarcastic remark too, or are you really that provincial?

8 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 12:49:38pm

re: #7 JeffFX

Considering this guy cheers on the rape of Bosnian Women, yes he is that Provincial. And no, I don’t believe his little “I understand, but don’t condone.”

And let’s not forget the fact that the Catholic Church at that time was thoroughly corrupt, much more so than today.

And I would like to note also that whiler Britain had largely secularized by the 1900’s, the Irish state enforced the Catholic Ne Tamere decrees into the 70’s.

Before and after 1907, legal reforms across Europe were slowly creating new personal freedoms. Ne Temere was widely criticised by non-Catholics for restricting choice in family matters.

The result made official civil marriages difficult for lapsed Catholics in some Church-dominated nations.[citation needed] It also meant that, because a priest could refuse to perform mixed marriages between Roman Catholics and non-Roman Catholics, he could impose conditions such as an obligation for any children to be baptised and brought up as Catholics, and for the non-Catholic partners to submit to religious education with the aim of converting them to Catholicism.

The issue of the Roman Catholic Church’s Canon law declaring marriages invalid, which were however recognised as valid by the State, raised major political and judicial issues in Canada, especially Quebec, and in Australia. In New South Wales, the legislature came within one vote of making a criminal offence the promulgation of the decree.

Of note is the Fethard-on-Sea incident.

9 Destro  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 1:57:22pm

re: #7 JeffFX

re: #8 ProBosniaLiberal

You guys must have missed all my anti-god posts.

And I don’t cheer the rape of Bosnian women, a subject you bring up as a strawman.

With that said, seriously, Protestants are hell doomed heretics. Especially the American ones.

10 klys  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 2:17:29pm

re: #9 Destro

Just curious: who isn’t going to hell, according to you?

11 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 3:12:52pm

re: #9 Destro

See, that seems like a CYA to me, considering the glee with which you defended those actions.

I will constantly bring this up in regards to you.

12 EiMitch  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 4:00:02pm

I don’t care about ethnicity, religion, sect, birthplace, etc. What I care about is whether people embrace mutual freedom and tolerance, or if they’re a bunch of “freedom for me, but not for thee” dominionists. So long as they’re not the later, I say let people move and convert as they will.

Cultures are only as valuable as the people who hold them. Good people will reform poisoned cultures. Bad people will poison once-good cultures.

re: #5 wrenchwench

Maybe it’s the preconceived notions that are oppressive.

Some preconceptions seem much less absurd once context is applied. For example: I have the preconception that there are lots of Muslim majority states in which misogyny is the norm. But I also have the preconceptions that most Muslim immigrants in the west are trying to get away from that crap, and that most Muslim converts also abhor the mistreatment of women.

I have the preconception that most Muslims don’t appreciate others judging their religion on the basis of the theocrats and “secular” dictators in the middle-east, just like how most Christians don’t like being pigeonholed with the priests caught sexually abusing followers and/or covering-up the abuse.

Again, my only real worry is whether people believe freedom means “don’t you dare oppress me, ‘cause its my god-given right to oppress you!” So long as people realize true freedom is mutual, and not a privilege bestowed upon a chosen class, let them be.

13 JeffFX  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 4:07:21pm

re: #9 Destro

If you really don’t understand that that hell isn’t an actual place, I can’t take you any more seriously than I would Pat Robertson.

14 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 6:03:58pm

I’ve heard a lot of Muslim women who cover up say that they really like not being judged by their beauty or lack thereof. I’ll bet it is a relief. As long as it isn’t coerced, I can see the appeal.

15 Tigger2005  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 7:06:44pm

re: #14 moderatelyradicalliberal

I’ve heard a lot of Muslim women who cover up say that they really like not being judged by their beauty or lack thereof. I’ll bet it is a relief. As long as it isn’t coerced, I can see the appeal.

My view is, if you want to be modest, BE modest. I guess some folks need a religion to justify being modest. “I need God to tell me to be modest. The benefits of being modest are not enough for me in and of themselves” If that’s what it takes for them, fine, as long as they don’t force their religion on anyone else.

16 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 7:09:27pm

Muslim women never have a bad hair day.

17 Gus  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 7:37:51pm

An oddly written piece by Linda Heard whom I know I’ve read her name before and not in a positive manner. There seems to be a bit of propagandizing here that I just can’t put my finger on. She repeats the 3/4 of convert being women from a study which I believe was done in 2011 while making it appear as though it was from 2012. Not much data is shown nor links and it’s mostly anecdotal and reeks of some rather neo-conservatism:

There are numerous reasons why young British women choose Islam. In many cases, it’s because they want to please Muslim fiancés and husbands, to be accepted by Muslim-in laws or to bring up their children in one cohesive faith. However, as the BBC documentary illustrates, others see Islam as a safe haven within a society that denigrates the female form in newspapers and magazines and celebrates a pub/club culture where regular nights out with “mates” getting “sloshed” or popping hallucinogens is more the norm than the exception.

Societal permissiveness, where family life has broken down in the absence of traditional mores, has made demands on young women, valuing them accordance to their physical attributes. Islam offers those women a sense of belonging, a community of like minds in areas where there is a substantial Muslim population. It provides structure to their life, a blueprint for living and a sense of personal security; it gives them renewed dignity and, as they perceive it, increased worth as a human being. There are cases where women have gone through hard times and see their conversion to Islam as a re-birth, a wiping clean of the slate.

I would reccomened this piece instead from The Independent:

Women & Islam: The rise and rise of the convert

Record numbers of young, white British women are converting to Islam, yet many are reporting a lack of help as they get used to their new religion, according to several surveys.

As Muslims celebrate the start of the religious holiday of Eid today and hundreds of thousands from around the world converge on Mecca for the haj, it emerged that of the 5,200 Britons who converted to Islam last year, more than half are white and 75 per cent of them women.

In the past 10 years some 100,000 British people have converted to Islam, of whom some three-quarters are women, according to the latest statistics. This is a significant increase on the 60,000 Britons in the previous decade, according to researchers based at Swansea University.

Continues.

18 Destro  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 9:22:52pm

re: #13 JeffFX

If you really don’t understand that that hell isn’t an actual place, I can’t take you any more seriously than I would Pat Robertson.

Satan is my favorite fictional villain second only to Thanos from Marvel Comics. Jaws from the James Bond movies is in third place.

19 Destro  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 9:25:16pm

re: #10 klys

No one is going to hell that is all mythical nonsense. There is no supernatural. No god or heaven or afterlife.

At least I hope there is no god because they all seem like assholes be they Zeus or Odin or that whack job god in the Bible.

20 Destro  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 9:31:08pm

re: #11 ProBosniaLiberal

I don’t mind. I will bring up America’s and Western European scumbags tendency to commit genocide.

Indians? Africans? Asians? Australian Aborigines? Crusades? Holocaust of Jews and Gypsies and Homosexuals and Slavs? Done by Eastern people or Eastern Christians?

Nope. Done by the supposedly enlightened Western European Protestant and or Catholics civilizations.

21 klys  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 9:47:09pm

re: #19 Destro

So you keep saying they’re all going to hell because…?

Since if there is no god and there is no hell, how are they going there?

22 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 9:52:09pm

Converting to any religion is pretty stupid, considering there’s no brainwashing/conditioning during the formative childhood years. I can’t imagine we’re talking about the best and brightest Brits here, on average.

23 Destro  Thu, Feb 21, 2013 11:42:19pm

re: #21 klys

It’s an old joke - about the pretensions of religion and how all religions are the heresies of another religion and also the fact that the Church of England was founded by a murderer. Hence the going to hell part if there is one. I mean seriously, the church of England is founded by a murderer - how can it’s members not be bound for hell by their own logic?

In any case religion is stupid and I wish it would die off already so we could move on.

24 JeffFX  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 4:44:13am

re: #22 SidewaysQuark

Most converts to a religion are coming from another and carrying over the brainwashing, or have suffered a major emotional trauma. Very few people start by understanding that the supernatural is fictional, and then go religious without some kind of major breakdown.

25 Aligarr  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 6:43:55am

I think it a phenomena , as sort of variation of Stockholm Syndrome . Join the side that poses the greatest threat , thereby attaining a protection of sorts , and at the same time an empowerment, that no one’s gonna mess with you . Ignoring however that they have put on their own restraints which comes from joining the same group . That whole ” make me a muslim ” thing seems to me a surrender of sorts . I think the Brits in the back of their minds feel islam is NOT going away and the demographics will soon make them a minority in their own country . A very sad situation for England . There are towns in Scandanavian countries where blond hair women are dyeing their hair black to avoid harrassment and rape , as their Nordic features are stereotyped in their minds thus making them the more obvious targets .

26 Destro  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 6:47:06am

re: #25 Aligarr

I think it a phenomena , as sort of variation of Stockholm Syndrome . Join the side that poses the greatest threat , thereby attaining a protection of sorts , and at the same time an empowerment, that no one’s gonna mess with you . Ignoring however that they have put on their won restraints which comes from joining the same group . That whole ” make me a muslim ” thing seems to me a surrender of sorts . I think the Brits in the backl of their minds feel islam is NOT going away and the demographics will soon make them a minority in their own country . A very sad situation for England . There are towns in Scandanavian countries where blond hair women are dyeing their hair black to avoid harrassment and rape , as their Nordic features are stereotyped in their minds thus making them the more obvious targets .

I have lived all over Europe as part of my job. I have not seen any of this bullshit Americans come up with about Muslims and their soon to take over Euroabia bullshit.

Can you Americans please for the love of ‘god’ just shut the fuck up and leave, Serioulsy, leave fucking Europe and don’t come back. Stay in your borders and eat mother fucking corndogs on your couches while you watch some inane sport show.

You and your type are the reason I have to claim I am Canadian when I am over there.

27 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:53:49am

re: #26 Destro

I have lived all over Europe as part of my job. I have not seen any of this bullshit Americans come up with about Muslims and their soon to take over Euroabia bullshit.

Can you Americans please for the love of ‘god’ just shut the fuck up and leave, Serioulsy, leave fucking Europe and don’t come back. Stay in your borders and eat mother fucking corndogs on your couches while you watch some inane sport show.

You and your type are the reason I have to claim I am Canadian when I am over there.

Interesting.

28 klys  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:54:35am

re: #26 Destro

I have lived all over Europe as part of my job. I have not seen any of this bullshit Americans come up with about Muslims and their soon to take over Euroabia bullshit.

Can you Americans please for the love of ‘god’ just shut the fuck up and leave, Serioulsy, leave fucking Europe and don’t come back. Stay in your borders and eat mother fucking corndogs on your couches while you watch some inane sport show.

You and your type are the reason I have to claim I am Canadian when I am over there.

Just for you, I’ll be sure to pencil in a trip to Europe sometime in the next few years.

29 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:08:40am

I’m sure the Bosnians didn’t want the Americans to leave Europe.

30 SidewaysQuark  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:45:02am

Extrapolating a current growth rate from a demographic consisting of only a few percent is to the threat of ‘imminent takeover’ is bad science and bad math if I’ve ever seen it. It’s like taking the rate local temperatures rise in March and panicking because ‘at current rates, it’ll be 130°F by December!’

31 Destro  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:47:15am

re: #29 Gus

I’m sure the Bosnians didn’t want the Americans to leave Europe.

Sucks that we are broke so America won’t be a European presence in the long run for the Bosnians and Albanians. Maybe al-Qaeda, Saudi Arabia and Iran can send them aid like before?

32 Destro  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:48:28am

re: #28 klys

Just for you, I’ll be sure to pencil in a trip to Europe sometime in the next few years.

Knowing people who work in the restaurants and what they think of American tourists I would be careful what you eat.

33 Destro  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:50:40am

re: #27 Gus

Interesting.

America sucks. This from an American that has lived in 6 countries in 6 years as part of my job.

34 Aligarr  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 1:10:13pm

re: #26 Destro

Three words for you Destro …after you get your head out from up your ass ….GFY ….do it now before someone else does .

p.s. The reason you call yourself Canadien when you visit Europe is ….you’re a punk-ass coward .

35 Aligarr  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 1:14:01pm

re: #33 Destro

Why dont you just get the fuck out now ?

36 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 1:28:43pm

re: #32 Destro

Knowing people who work in the restaurants and what they think of American tourists I would be careful what you eat.

So what kind of poisoning are you predicting here? A lethal dose or something that might cause something akin to food poisoning? Or perhaps these high and mighty European intellectual poseurs that are working in restaurants would simply spit inside their burger?

Did you know that Paris finally passed a law allowing women to wear trousers?

Oh. Here’s something I saw from high and mighty Europe this morning:

37 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 1:33:42pm

And Greece.

38 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 6:27:57am

re: #26 Destro

I have to claim I am Canadian when I am over there.

I’m sure all of Canada must feel so proud!!

39 kmg  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:37:20am

re: #14 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, I am sure it feels great in 90+ degree weather while their men are wearing shorts and T-shirts!

40 kmg  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:42:44am

re: #38 sattv4u2

Actually, we don’t.

While in Europe he should just say what he is before he (or his family) became American ;-) because with his attitude, I can guarantee you his “American” roots do not go back centuries or even many decades.

41 Aligarr  Sun, Feb 24, 2013 5:01:33am

Should Destro find himself in a tiff in any of those ” six countries ” he’s lived in …..whose Embassy would he go to for assistance ??


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 Frank says:

Gee, it's so hard to find a place to park around here.