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1 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:50:03pm

Read this earlier today. It’s a good read.

2 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 2:15:11pm

/Destro Mode On

well, he was bad, but he wasn’t THAT bad!!

/Destro Mode Off

3 Aligarr  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 2:30:11pm

meet the new boss same as the old boss ….

4 PeterWolf  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 2:42:14pm

Chavez’s main failing was a simple one. He did not conform to the “he might be a bastard, but he’s our bastard” rule.

5 Political Atheist  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 3:48:11pm

5 Ways Hugo Chavez Has Destroyed the Venezuelan Economy

1. Venezuela has gone from being dependent on oil to being extremely dependent on oil.
2. The Chavez government has crippled private businesses and national industry through expropriations and nationalizations.
3. The Venezuelan currency is a mess.
4. Prices in Venezuela have gone up by 23 percent a year for more than ten years.
5.Under Chavez Venezuela has become one of the most violent countries on the planet.

6 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 7:03:56pm

re: #2 sattv4u2

/Destro Mode On

well, he was bad, but he wasn’t THAT bad!!

/Destro Mode Off

Chavez is still the best human rights respecting leader Venezuela ever had.

7 jdoc1357  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:06:06am

HRW is pretty ridiculous with regard to Chavez, not because there’s nothing to criticize, but because of the absurdly disproportionate way they have targeted Venezuela.

Even taking at face value all of their claims (which one shouldn’t), their main attack is:

“• Assault on Judicial Independence
• Assault on Press Freedoms
• Rejection of Human Rights Scrutiny
• Embracing Abusive Governments”

This kind of list hardly rises to placing Venezuela anywhere near the top of the list of human rights abusers, even in the Western hemisphere, let alone the world. Yet HRW has in the past written hysterical reports of hundreds of pages about Venezuela while devoting nowhere near as much time or energy to dozens of governments with far worse records. Some perspective is much needed. Chavez had no secret prisons, no torture centers, no indefinite detentions, no assassinations without due process, started no wars of aggression and killed nobody. Yet HRW somehow finds far less time to wring their hands about governments that do any and all of those things than about the far more grave human rights abuse of elected representatives constitutionally passing a law that changes the size and structure of the supreme court. Moreover, they ignore the clear advances in human rights under Chavez, such as regards articles 21-27 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in particular.

There’s a reason why large majorities of Venezuelans repeatedly re-elected Chavez, and why democratic governments across the region from Equador, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, etc., have considered Venezuela and Chavez a great inspiration and ally. HRW’s selective and distorted version of Chavez’s “Legacy” - essentially indistinguishable from the talking points of the partisan Venezuelan opposition that the voters have repeatedly rejected - will not shed any light on the reasons.

8 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:55:17am

re: #6 Destro

Chavez is still the best human rights respecting leader Venezuela ever had.

And his immediate predecessor?

9 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:57:05am

re: #7 jdoc1357

Chavez also manipulated elections a lot.

I think one of the main reasons he got so much attention was because he was regressing freedoms there; it wasn’t simply a carrying-on of already existing abuses, he deepened and expanded them. Democracy is far worse after his tenure— even in death, the way that he transitioned power was completely undemocratic.

10 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:44:36am

Also:

[Link: report2009.amnesty.org…]

The Attorney General’s Office announced that it would create a designated investigation team in 2009 to look into more than 6,000 reported cases of extrajudicial executions in which people were killed in confrontations with police between 2000 and 2007.

Note that that’s entirely under Chavez.

11 Destro  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:38:56am

re: #8 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

And his immediate predecessor?

The guy who allowed Venezuelans to starve to pay off the IMF?

12 Destro  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:41:15am

re: #10 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Also:

[Link: report2009.amnesty.org…]

Note that that’s entirely under Chavez.

Venezuela is going through a drug war problem same as Mexico - these were not killings of opposition leaders, etc.

There is a very big drug war going on for turf that is ignored by the American media in favor of what nuttiness North Korea is doing or if Iran will get a nuclear weapon sometime in the next 30 years.

13 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:42:38am

re: #11 Destro

The guy who allowed Venezuelans to starve to pay off the IMF?

Yeah, him. The guy who inherited a gigantic economic meltdown and then, eventually, unable to cope in any other way, took IMF funds. He could have also nationalized stuff like Chavez in his haphazard way.

What made him worse than Chavez, to you? That he took IMF funds— so the anti-democratic aspects of Chavez are nothing compared to that?

14 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:43:13am

re: #12 Destro

Venezuela is going through a drug war problem same as Mexico - these were not killings of opposition leaders, etc.

There is a very big drug war going on for turf that is ignored by the American media in favor of what nuttiness North Korea is doing or if Iran will get a nuclear weapon sometime in the next 30 years.

Wow, they don’t even need to do the investigation, you already know the answer.

15 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:57:03am

Hee hee. A downding for posting an Amnesty International link.

What do you think of the law Chavez passed that would have forced people to inform on each other or be prosecuted? That one he eventually pulled back after all the protests, so that’s cool.


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