Rachel Corrie, Ten Years After Her Death Under IDF Bulldozer in Rafah

History • March 2013 • Views: 3,811

Youtube Video
Ten years after Rachel Corrie was crushed by an Israeli Defense Forces bulldozer while nonviolently protesting Israel’s destruction of Palestinian homes, the building of Israeli suburbs (let’s cut the “settlement” crap) on occupied land continues unabated and US taxpayers still pay for the Caterpillar bulldozers to do it.

Her death was mocked, jeered and celebrated by right wingers, including on this website (called a “useful idiot” by Charles Johnson before her body was cold) and in comments that still exist to this day (“thankfully, the tractor was not mock,” “she did deserve to die,” “rest in pieces,” etc.) In Gaza she is still remembered and memorialized, and some say her legacy continues, but the anniversary of her death is passing mostly unnoticed in the media while the president is visiting Israel.

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61 comments

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 20, 2013 11:46:39am

Another burr under your saddle.

alinuxguru Wed, Mar 20, 2013 11:51:46am

Rachel Corrie was the victim of her own willful and considerable negligence. Her lionization is no different than that of Mohammed Al-Dura. In both cases, an enduring myth was created that supplanted the truth for those that would condemn Israel at every turn.

Locker Wed, Mar 20, 2013 12:36:44pm

Fuck off you donkey raping shit eater.

- Eric Cartman

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 1:29:20pm

Rachel Corrie was a naïve young woman from Washington state who fell in with the International Solidarity Movement, an extreme left-wing group that has documented ties to Palestinian organizations the State Dept calls terrorist groups. The ISM deliberately uses people like Corrie for maximum propaganda effect — they admit this openly. They stage them in dangerous places, and if they get hurt or killed they immediately begin building anti-Israel agitprop around them. In this case, they sent Corrie to Hamas-dominated Gaza, right into the middle of a military operation clearing houses used to hide smuggling tunnels.

Corrie certainly didn’t deserve to die in the accident that killed her, but she doesn’t deserve to become a hero, either. It’s a tragic story but not a heroic one. She was used by anti-Israel ideologues in her life, and they’re still using her.

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 1:54:11pm

Yep, the comments you linked to in your hit piece do suck. This is actually the first time I saw them - believe it or not, I can’t read every comment posted at LGF.

But we have much better tools now to prevent these kinds of comments from remaining posted. I designed those tools specifically to allow our admins to quickly deal with over the top comments, and all this happened a long time ago.

And did you notice something else about those sucky comments? All of the people who posted them are gone. A long time ago.

Living in the past and carrying grudges kind of sucks too.

Aligarr Wed, Mar 20, 2013 2:16:14pm

Corey indeed is not a hero nor martyr .Her general view of Israel is what got her over there to begin with . Too bad she could not protest the destruction of Life rather than the houses of the palestinians who took those lives . She didn’t deserve to die , but she did not hold any moral high ground in her wreckless act in which she lost her life .

Local Media Monitor Wed, Mar 20, 2013 2:28:09pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

Yep, the comments you linked to in your hit piece do suck. This is actually the first time I saw them - believe it or not, I can’t read every comment posted at LGF.

Would you accept that kind of excuse from FOX Nation’s parade of vile hate in their comments section? Isn’t it more likely they were left on there because you agreed with those comments at the time? You certainly deleted a lot of other comments.

But we have much better tools now to prevent these kinds of comments from remaining posted. I designed those tools specifically to allow our admins to quickly deal with over the top comments, and all this happened a long time ago.

Like the one right above your comment #4?

Liiving in the past and carrying grudges kind of sucks too.

Do I really need to repeat the old “those who forget the past…” thing?
I have no grudge but an interest in honesty and in history. These things must not be swept under the rug; these posts and comments show who we all were at the time. It’s a pretty fascinating time capsule, in a way, if one can ignore the ugliness and hate.

Seriously, I’m thinking of doing an occasional series of “ten years ago today on LGF,” to provide a view of the day-to-day history of the culture of the war here stateside, so please tell me what you think about it. I would hope you would welcome an honest reassessment of the past, as part of your commendable public reversal on that tragedy and on the right wing movement in general.

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 2:33:41pm

re: #7 Local Media Monitor

Would you accept that kind of excuse from FOX Nation’s parade of vile hate in their comments section?

Maybe you missed this subtle distinction, but Fox News is a huge multi-national corporation, and I am one person with a computer. Yes, I do not read every comment at LGF, and I do not approve of all of them automatically, either. That has always been the case, and it continues to be the case.

Seriously, I’m thinking of doing an occasional series of “ten years ago today on LGF,” to provide a view of the day-to-day history of the culture of the war here stateside, so please tell me what you think about it. I would hope you would welcome an honest reassessment of the past, as part of your commendable public reversal on that tragedy and on the right wing movement in general.

If you think I’m going to continue allowing you to use the software I wrote and provide to you for free to keep posting these kinds of disingenuous attacks on me, you’re dreaming.

Feel free to post them somewhere else.

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 2:44:01pm

re: #7 Local Media Monitor

By the way, when you see comments like those, one way to let me know about them is to be a jerk and post something like this, but the other way is to click on the little exclamation point icon and report them, so they can be deleted by an admin. That’s what I mean by the tools that have been developed at LGF. Try using them.

Thanks anyway, for letting me know about them. They’ve been deleted now. If you find any more, just click that exclamation point.

Local Media Monitor Wed, Mar 20, 2013 2:47:05pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Your politics have changed, but you haven’t.

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 20, 2013 2:47:46pm

re: #10 Local Media Monitor

Your politics have changed, but you haven’t.

And you’re a whiny little douche. Is that a chip on your shoulder I see?

Gus Wed, Mar 20, 2013 2:53:24pm

re: #10 Local Media Monitor

Your politics have changed, but you haven’t.

The only person Charles really needs to answer for is himself. If Charles was wrong with his ways he communicated himself far more with his action. If Charles wanted a fundamentalist pastor to help him REPENT he would do so on his own.

Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 20, 2013 2:53:48pm

re: #10 Local Media Monitor

Fuck off and die, you annoying little turd.

Gus Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:03:00pm

Oh. And you’re still a moonbat.

Varek Raith Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:03:39pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Rachel Corrie was a naïve young woman from Washington state who fell in with the International Solidarity Movement, an extreme left-wing group that has documented ties to Palestinian organizations the State Dept calls terrorist groups. The ISM deliberately uses people like Corrie for maximum propaganda effect — they admit this openly. They stage them in dangerous places, and if they get hurt or killed they immediately begin building anti-Israel agitprop around them. In this case, they sent Corrie to Hamas-dominated Gaza, right into the middle of a military operation clearing houses used to hide smuggling tunnels.

Corrie certainly didn’t deserve to die in the accident that killed her, but she doesn’t deserve to become a hero, either. It’s a tragic story but not a heroic one. She was used by anti-Israel ideologues in her life, and they’re still using her.

Quoted for the fact that Local Media Monitor ignored this.

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:08:45pm

And to my absolute non-surprise, he runs for the exit when he gets blowback.

Local Media Monitor Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:10:21pm

re: #16 Targetpractice

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:11:43pm

re: #17 Local Media Monitor

?

Oh, I’m sorry, you went absolutely quiet. I figured with balls that big, you’d be quick with the replies.

Bubblehead II Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:15:42pm

re: #16 Targetpractice

And to my absolute non-surprise, he runs for the exit when he gets blowback.

No, (s)he is is still here.

Local Media Monitor (They Once Called Me Moonbat)
Web site URL:
dailykos.com

Local Media Monitor for local hate-talk shows. Follow me on Twitter at @FactCheckmate, to join the campaign email localmediamonitor@gmail.com

(Logged in)
Registered since: Feb 8, 2013 at 3:23 pm
No. of comments posted: 60
No. of Pages posted: 10

But I don’t know why? Just what exactly is your complaint. Why are you here? What is your point? Please explain yourself.

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:22:44pm

re: #7 Local Media Monitor

Another can’t-win moment. Should have been deleted, yet shouldn’t be swept under the rug.

If you see deleted comments near ones you think should have been deleted, it could be because there were several commenters who had every comment they ever made deleted after they were banned.

Charles could have deleted the earlier years of the blog entirely, but he didn’t. I think that’s to his credit. Although you mention his ‘commendable public reversal’, I haven’t seen you commend anything, only condemn.

Wouldn’t your time be better spent needling real right wingers like Hedgecock?

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:25:19pm

re: #20 wrenchwench

I actually noticed that a long-gone commenter among those mentioned above should probably also get the “Nuke All” treatment.

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:27:00pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

I actually noticed that a long-gone commenter among those mentioned above should probably also get the “Nuke All” treatment.

So Local Media Micro Manager has provided a service. Good for him. Maybe he can locate the report button and do some more.

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:28:37pm

re: #22 wrenchwench

I always try to see these periodic comment-digging expeditions as an opportunity to clean up things that were missed.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:30:10pm

re: #7 Local Media Monitor

Would you accept that kind of excuse from FOX Nation’s parade of vile hate in their comments section? Isn’t it more likely they were left on there because you agreed with those comments at the time? You certainly deleted a lot of other comments.

Like the one right above your comment #4?

Do I really need to repeat the old “those who forget the past…” thing?
I have no grudge but an interest in honesty and in history. These things must not be swept under the rug; these posts and comments show who we all were at the time. It’s a pretty fascinating time capsule, in a way, if one can ignore the ugliness and hate.

Seriously, I’m thinking of doing an occasional series of “ten years ago today on LGF,” to provide a view of the day-to-day history of the culture of the war here stateside, so please tell me what you think about it. I would hope you would welcome an honest reassessment of the past, as part of your commendable public reversal on that tragedy and on the right wing movement in general.

You can’t seriously think anyone believes it would be an ‘honest reassessment of the past’. The chip on your shoulder is visible from space.

This was just a lie:

Her death was mocked, jeered and celebrated by right wingers, including on this website (called a “useful idiot” by Charles Johnson before her body was cold)

That’s not mocking her. Useful idiot is a phrase. It’s a callous phrase in the circumstances, but it’s accurate. Corrie got caught up in events and made a series of terrible decisions and let herself be used. I have no idea why people who say they mourn her aren’t more concerned about the people who put her in harms way.

Bubblehead II Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:34:20pm

Toe tapping. We are waiting. Please explain yourself. Are you dredging thru the archives to find posts that cast me in a negative light? If, so, try looking at LGF Watch. They have a couple I believe will meet your criteria.

Charles, please don’t delete them. They represent who I was then. Not now.

It’s called something, I don’t know. maybe, evolution?

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:35:06pm

re: #24 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It was pretty blunt and insensitive, and I wouldn’t write it that way now. But it wasn’t totally wrong, either, and it was not “mocking.” That’s what I tried to say in comment 4, using more words.

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:37:09pm

We can haz moonbat font naow?

Gus Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:39:56pm

Charles should make a page about this page!

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:40:55pm

re: #28 Gus

With plenty of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:46:09pm

I think “Media Monitor” was looking for the Dead Louse site and took a wrong turn.

He will be welcome there with open tentacles.

Gus Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:46:21pm

To all the sanctimonious puritopians who watched from outside all these years I can’t begin to tell you how much Charles and this place has changed. I saw many people that I used to consider wingnuts go from right to left. I don’t want to name names but I was quite the wingnut myself. Some have become more centrists. I know others including a former Marine who I sometimes perceive as being to the left of me on certain issues.

This place is no longer a war blog. It didn’t even begin as a war blog but evolved into one. It had a reactionary membership during the “war years.” Many of us have put this behind us and worked it out in the words which can be found in our more recent comments. Charles leaves his old posts out in the open for people to read. Many others would have archived those war mongering pages.

Gus Wed, Mar 20, 2013 3:50:19pm

Oh. I would also add that people like you have a lot of freaking nerve coming here to preach. Charles went through a lot of shit for these changes. I went through some of my own internet bullshit including many others here.

Interesting Times Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:03:52pm

re: #32 Gus

It’s also a spectacularly unproductive and useless waste of time. Why on earth wouldn’t one spend that energy doing, oh, I don’t know, documentation of the nastiness and media malfeasance out there now? One of the main reasons I’m here is because LGF covers things the corporate media completely ignores. I really couldn’t care less what this site was like “back then”, long before I even read it.

And if you really want to “learn from the past,” seems it would make a lot more sense to chart the evolution of the people here who used to be “wingnuts” and no longer are - that could help you figure out what made them vulnerable to wingnuttery in the first place, and how you might get others to break away from that destructive thinking.

What’s going on with this Page is akin to going up to a former alcoholic and saying, “Neener, neener, you used to drink! You used to drink! Look at all these old pictures I have of you when you were all drunk and stuff! Derp.”

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:07:51pm

So Local, have you engaged in enough navel-gazing? It’s been 2 hours since you planted your foot in your mouth, would you like to extract it or keep chewing?

Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:17:14pm

Have we been graced with a return performance of Teh legendary Nodrog or is this just some lame wannabee?

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:18:15pm

re: #35 Vicious Babushka

Have we been graced with a return performance of Teh legendary Nodrog or is this just some lame wannabee?

Nah, Nodrog had more staying power than this.

Local Media Monitor Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:19:03pm

re: #33 Interesting Times
Actually, I think AA requires them to go back and try to right the wrongs from their alcoholic days.
re: #26 Charles Johnson
Note these comments today by your fans and defenders:

“Fuck off you donkey raping shit eater”
“Fuck off and die, you annoying little turd”
“you’re a whiny little douche”

Things have really changed around here, right?

I bear no ill will toward people who realized they were wrong about the war. My beloved brother did, went from being angry at me for leading antiwar protests to apologizing and saying “won’t get fooled again.” But my brother never published hateful prowar diatribes, encouraging violence on antiwar movement and how it “loves Osama,” while exulting in carnage on a website that got millions of reads; if he had, basic integrity would require that he come clean about it and try to undo some of damage he’d participated in. Basic integrity would require that you periodically look at the posts you made during your promotion of the hysteria, lies and hate, and rethink them from your new position. And the upcoming ten year anniversaries would make that easy.

You don’t agree. You think it’s fine to announce that you’ve changed your stance and…that’s it. And you think it’s fine to shut down anyone who wants to discuss the details of the bad old days, to analyze the past that we don’t want to repeat in the future. Maybe you’re right, and even if I think it’s not quite enough, in the end I am glad and thankful you did your U-turn.

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:27:16pm

This is exulting in carnage?

Baghdad is being pounded. Journalists were warned to leave the Al Rashid hotel; they didn’t. And now I’m hearing on the radio that the entire area is in flames.

Your mission, whatever the hell it is, might have better results if you weren’t so dishonest about it.

Pretty thin-skinned, too.

Like the one right above your comment #4?

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:28:09pm

“Maybe”? Mighty white of you.

I seem to remember this guy who took glee that four private security company employees were blown up and their corpses strung up upon a bridge. Said something to the effect of “Screw them.” Then he deleted the page and tried to act as if he was being accused of a falsehood, before confirming he had said it and showed absolutely no remorse over the statement.

Perhaps you’ve heard of him.

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:35:51pm

re: #37 Local Media Monitor

But my brother never published hateful prowar diatribes, encouraging violence on antiwar movement and how it “loves Osama,” while exulting in carnage…

None of these claims are even remotely close to being true. This is starting to get stupid.

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:37:36pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

None of these claims are even remotely close to being true. This is starting to get stupid.

Starting? This is sounding like a list of grievances from a moonbat who feels that he’s owed something for having been “right” about Iraq.

EPR-radar Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:38:30pm

re: #41 Targetpractice

Starting? This is sounding like a list of grievances from a moonbat who feels that he’s owed something for having been “right” about Iraq.

Much like a twit that can’t take yes for an answer.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:48:37pm

re: #37 Local Media Monitor

What the fuck are you even trying to do. You keep having to misrepresent things. This:

Shock and Awe
Charles Johnson
3/21/03 10:09:31 am • Views: 220
Baghdad is being pounded. Journalists were warned to leave the Al Rashid hotel; they didn’t. And now I’m hearing on the radio that the entire area is in flames.

Is not exulting in carnage. That you need to pretend it is kind of puts paid to your whole claim to just be taking an honest look at the past. That’s not honest. That’s dishonest.

So, maybe we could talk about your hypocrisy for awhile? The cool thing about that is it’s happening in the present!

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:59:26pm

re: #37 Local Media Monitor

…you think it’s fine to shut down anyone who wants to discuss the details of the bad old days.

Oh please. You’re being “shut down” in a thread that discusses exactly that?

I told you, go ahead and post your distorted, axe-grinding retrospectives of how awful LGF used to be — somewhere else. I’m not “shutting you down.” You have absolute freedom to post whatever you want — somewhere else.

I have no obligation to let you attack me on the website I pay for and maintain.

CuriousLurker Thu, Mar 21, 2013 3:24:48am

W? T? F?

What a load of self-righteous hogwash. This is how you commemorate a young woman’s tragic death, by dredging up vile, 10-year-old comments made by people who moved on or were banned long ago?

It’s clear that you have an axe to grind as creating such an inflammatory post as this one is the very definition of trolling. You made no attempt whatsoever to start a dialog—all you did was point your finger at Charles, long departed LGF members, the media, and President Obama.

Rachel Corrie was an idealistic, naive young woman who used & abused in life and in death as a pawn & political symbol by countless haters and cynics. Now, 10 years later, here YOU are using her again.

It’s well and truly deplorable.

Gus Thu, Mar 21, 2013 5:48:27am

Speaking of 10 year anniversaries. Seems as though one just passed a couple of weeks ago.

Haifa bus 37 suicide bombing

The Haifa bus 37 suicide bombing was a suicide bombing carried out on March 5, 2003 on an Egged bus in Haifa, Israel. Seventeen passengers were killed in the attack and 53 were injured. Many of the victims were students from Haifa University

The dead:

• Miriam Atar, 27, from Haifa
• Anatoly Biryakov, 20, from Haifa
• Smadar Firstatter, 17, from Haifa
• Daniel Harush, 16, from Safed
• Motti Hershko, 41, from Haifa
• Tom Hershko, 16, from Haifa
• Meital Katav, 20, from Haifa
• Elizabeth (Liz) Katzman, 17, from Haifa
• Tal Kehrmann, 17, from Haifa
• Kmer Abu Khamed, 12, from Daliyat al Karmel
• St.-Stg. Eliyahu Laham, 22, from Haifa
• Abigail Litle, 14, from Haifa
• Yuval Mendelevitch, 13, from Haifa
• Be’eri Ovad, 21, from Rosh Pina
• Moran Shushan, 20, from Haifa
• Mark Takash, 54, from Haifa
• Asaf Tzur, 16, from Haifa

Vicious Babushka Thu, Mar 21, 2013 6:00:10am

It’s coming up on the 11th anniversary of the Park Hotel Massacre.

During the Jewish holiday of Passover in 2002, Park Hotel in the Israeli coastal city of Netanya held its traditional annual Passover seder (festive religious meal) for its 250 guests, in the hotel dining room located at the ground floor of the hotel. During this holiday the hotel consisted many elderly Jews who didn’t have family and relatives in Israel.

In the evening of 27 March 2002, a Palestinian suicide bomber disguised as a woman approached the hotel carrying a suitcase which contained powerful explosives. The suicide bomber managed to pass the security guard at the entrance to a hotel, then he walked through the lobby passing the reception desk and entered the hotel’s crowded dining room. At 19:30 pm (GMT+2) the suicide bomber detonated the explosive device he was carrying. The force of the explosion instantly killed 28 civilians and injured about 140 people, of whom 20 were injured severely. Two of the injured later died from their wounds. Some of the victims were Holocaust survivors.[3][4][5] Most of the victims were senior citizens (70 and over). The oldest victim was 90 and the youngest was 20 years old. A number of married couples were killed, as well as a father together with his daughter. One of the victims was a Jewish tourist from Sweden who was visiting Israel for Passover.[6]

The plot for Passover massacre included the use of Cyanide.,[7] 4 kg of Cyanide had been bought and prepared for a chemical attack.

Gus Thu, Mar 21, 2013 6:03:50am

re: #47 Vicious Babushka

It’s coming up on the 11th anniversary of the Park Hotel Massacre.

Hamas

Gus Thu, Mar 21, 2013 6:04:23am

re: #47 Vicious Babushka

It’s coming up on the 11th anniversary of the Park Hotel Massacre.

The dead:

• Shula Abramovitch, 63, of Holon
• David Anichovitch, 70, of Netanya
• Sgt.-Maj. Avraham Beckerman, 25, of Ashdod
• Shimon Ben-Aroya, 42, of Netanya
• Alter Britvich, 88, of Netanya
• Frieda Britvich, 86, of Netanya
• Andre Fried, 47, of Netanya
• Idit Fried, 47, of Netanya
• Miriam Gutenzgan, 82, Ramat Gan
• Amiram Hamami, 44, of Netanya
• Perla Hermele, 79, of Sweden
• Dvora Karim, 73, of Netanya
• Michael Karim, 78, of Netanya
• Eliezer Korman, 74, of Ramat Hasharon
• Yehudit Korman, 70, of Ramat Hasharon
• Marianne Myriam Lehmann Zaoui, 77, of Netanya
• Lola Levkovitch, 70, of Jerusalem
• Sarah Levy-Hoffman, 89, of Tel-Aviv
• Furuk Na’imi, 62, of Netanya
• Eliahu Nakash, 85, of Tel-Aviv
• Chanah Rogan, 90, of Netanya
• Irit Rashel, 45, of Moshav Herev La’et
• Clara Rosenberger, 77, of Jerusalem
• Yulia Talmi, 87, of Tel-Aviv
• St.-Sgt. Sivan Vider, 20, of Bekaot
• Zee’v Vider, 50, of Moshav Bekaot
• Ernest Weiss, 80, of Petah Tikva
• Eva Weiss, 75, of Petah Tikva
• Anna Yakobovitch, 78, of Holon
• George Yakobovitch, 76, of Holon.

Gus Thu, Mar 21, 2013 6:05:49am

Militants in Gaza have fired 2 rockets at southern Israel, as President Obama visits the region, Israeli police confirm - @ap
— Breaking News (@BreakingNews) March 21, 2013

Why I Never! Thu, Mar 21, 2013 11:26:29am

re: #37 Local Media Monitor

I’m late to the thread but I wanted to comment. I wanted to respond to some of this comment as well, but I’ll put that below.
I’m actually sympathetic to your points and your initial post. So I hope you’ll take these words as kindly meant.

I’ve been reading LGF for at least 9 years but I only joined in May of 2009, partly because the culture was changing.

I used to come to LGF to quote mine and make fun of extremist comments. LGF was where I came to find out about the wingnut zeitgeist.
I wound up reading it more often once CJ took on creationism. This was one of the only mainstream blogs (outside of science blogs or blogs solely devoted to it, like Dover v Kitzmiller on Blogspot) that regularly covered
creationists’ efforts to push into the public school system. Surely the only one on the right that did so!

CJ took a lot of shit for that, often from his own commenters, on his own site.

I hadn’t had a high opinion of Charles or this site until then. I opposed the Iraq war and the warbloggers from the beginning but I grudgingly came to admit that this Johnson guy was at least right about creationism, and at least there was fighting the good fight.

Then I started reading more of LGF, and most of the extremist comments came from people who are banned now and would have been banned then if Charles had the tools he has now then.

I still disagree with most of the commenters here and probably with Charles over issues like torture, war crimes and civil liberties.

Unlike most of the people who’ve commented thus far, I think a series of posts about the ten year anniversary of the war and the reactions to it would be a good thing, but why the hell would you want to do this specifically focussing on LGF, when CJ has already stated he was wrong? And on Charles’ own site?

Lots of people were warbloggers and cheer-led the Iraq war. How much self-flagellation is Charles supposed to do?

John Cole at Balloon Juice was also a fan of the Iraq war, and he doesn’t get anywhere near the abuse that CJ gets.

Do you seriously think he should countenance a series of posts from anyone that are solely devoted to attacking him? Come on! Do your posts, but make them about the general effort to sell the Iraq War, and don’t forget to include the New York Times and Judith Miller.

You have a choice here— keep dogging CJ about old comments on his website and his old positions, or be part of the solution— engage in a helpful and constructive way and effect change from within, on the issues you care about. I’ve done it here and elsewhere.

In my opinion, you also need to recognize and honour the changes CJ has made and the positive impact he has. This is a great site that has done a lot of work to expose extremism. Why not be part of that?

Just some advice from someone who wants to agree with you on some issues, but thinks you don’t have to act like a dick to make your points.

Why I Never! Thu, Mar 21, 2013 11:44:23am

re: #37 Local Media Monitor

Note these comments today by your fans and defenders:

Things have really changed around here, right?

Yes, they have really changed. I don’t think you should hold Charles responsible for the unhinged threats in this thread.
Or do you think he should have deleted them? Remember, he’s one guy with a website— a website with over a million comments. And if he deleted them he’d no doubt be accused of covering them up. Sometimes you have to let the cockroaches scurry into the light before you can stomp them.

I bear no ill will toward people who realized they were wrong about the war. My beloved brother did

Well, good for you. I wound up marrying someone I met here who fully supported the Iraq war and does no longer. People should get a pass for mistakes.

on a website that got millions of reads; if he had, basic integrity would require that he come clean about it and try to undo some of damage he’d participated in. Basic integrity would require that you periodically look at the posts you made during your promotion of the hysteria, lies and hate, and rethink them from your new position. And the upcoming ten year anniversaries would make that easy.

What makes you think he hasn’t done that? There was a post just yesterday about this.

You don’t agree. You think it’s fine to announce that you’ve changed your stance and…that’s it.

Again, how much self-flagellation is necessary?

And you think it’s fine to shut down anyone who wants to discuss the details of the bad old days, to analyze the past that we don’t want to repeat in the future.

No one has shut you down. Just the opposite.

and even if I think it’s not quite enough, in the end I am glad and thankful you did your U-turn.

Again, I’m not sure what you want, but it’s good that you’re glad and thankful.

I hope you stick around. I’d be interested to read your take on things and any posts that you make.
Cheers,
iceweasel

Local Media Monitor Thu, Mar 21, 2013 2:01:58pm

re: #52 Why I Never!

Thanks, Why I never/iceweasel (Whyweasel?). Your two comments are exactly the kind of thoughtful response I had hoped for.

I would reply more thoroughly, but it’s really not worth it. As you know, most people can’t seem to get past the two-camps, my-side-vs-yours, offensive-is-best-defense kind of mentality, and the internet is just made for them. After this brouhaha I went and found this article which opened my eyes a bit more.

I hope you stick around. I’d be interested to read your take on things and any posts that you make.

Guess I’ll be thinking about it. In the meantime check out my other pages and let’s fight the radical right.

Varek Raith Thu, Mar 21, 2013 2:46:24pm

re: #53 Local Media Monitor

You’d get more thoughtful responses if you made thoughtful responses yourself. You’ve been on offense this entire thread. You’ve also ignored many thoughtful responses too. So…

Why I Never! Thu, Mar 21, 2013 2:50:39pm

re: #53 Local Media Monitor

Thanks, Why I never/iceweasel (Whyweasel?). Your two comments are exactly the kind of thoughtful response I had hoped for.

I would reply more thoroughly, but it’s really not worth it. As you know, most people can’t seem to get past the two-camps, my-side-vs-yours, offensive-is-best-defense kind of mentality, and the internet is just made for them. After this brouhaha I went and found this article which opened my eyes a bit more.

Guess I’ll be thinking about it. In the meantime check out my other pages and let’s fight the radical right.

I’m glad you’re still here. I’ll definitely check out your other pages and I’m sure we’ll both keep fighting the radical right. (“The Moral Majority is neither”, as a sticker I once saw at Planned Parenthood put it.) Hope we talk soon, about this or anything else. Hope you keep hanging out here— give it a shot, it’s worth it. Peace!

CuriousLurker Thu, Mar 21, 2013 4:33:29pm

re: #51 Why I Never!

Do you seriously think he should countenance a series of posts from anyone that are solely devoted to attacking him? Come on! Do your posts, but make them about the general effort to sell the Iraq War, and don’t forget to include the New York Times and Judith Miller.

You have a choice here— keep dogging CJ about old comments on his website and his old positions, or be part of the solution— engage in a helpful and constructive way and effect change from within, on the issues you care about. I’ve done it here and elsewhere.

In my opinion, you also need to recognize and honour the changes CJ has made and the positive impact he has. This is a great site that has done a lot of work to expose extremism. Why not be part of that?

THIS x 1000.

I’m Muslim. so I was well aware of what LGF was was like in the past—it’s nearly impossible to have been online for any length of time and NOT know. Have I been through the archives? Yes, but only when looking for something specific as it’s extremely unpleasant for me on a very personal level.

It’s unpleasant not only because of the vitriol directed at Muslims in general, but also because it’s painful to read old comments from some of the more senior members who have evolved along with Charles—people I respect today and whose company I enjoy greatly, some of whom I have developed real friendships with outside of LGF—people who not so very long ago would have reviled me, and I them.

I see this blog as Charles’ “house”. He has allowed me to come in and learn, make friends, laugh, cry, rant, have the occasional nasty dust-up, and has even provided me with many tools & a platform from which I can express my opinions and publish stories that I think are important to a wider audience. Hell, he even promoted my Page on 9/11 on its 10th anniversary—me, a Muslim. Who would’ve ever imagined such a thing was possible at LGF?

Are his efforts completely selfless? No, of course not. He has to expend a good deal of time & energy to keep this place running, and we help out by generating content, tweeting articles, and (in some cases) subscribing monthly. I don’t begrudge him that—part of my job is web design & development, so I know full well what a valuable service he’s providing me (and everyone here). LGF may not have the traffic it once did, but it’s still vastly more high profile than anything most of us have at our disposal.

Don’t believe me? Go start up your own blog and see how long it takes you to get comparable traffic, then when/if you do, be ready to quit your day job and babysit it 24/7 as you’ll need to deal with security, server problems, review & analyze of your logs, keep up with new technologies, answer emails, upgrade your code, and promote your site via social networking & other avenues—all this while also fending off obsessed former members turned stalkers, keeping an eye out for trolls & sock puppets registrations, and refereeing brawls and cleaning up after someone has had a meltdown. Piece of cake, right? //

That said, I’m not about to go rummaging around in his basement, thumbing through old yearbooks looking for incriminating comments to throw in his face and demand he apologize for them. To what end? We’ve all done or said things in the past that we’d be ashamed of today. We can’t undo those things, but we can move on and make every effort to avoid falling into old traps and repeating our mistakes. That is as it should be and as it has always been IMO—it’s how we grow. Charles has always treated me with respect and has even defended me on the rare occasions when the need arose. For, me that’s more than enough proof that he’s a batter man today and that his changes issue from his heart, not just his lips.

CuriousLurker Thu, Mar 21, 2013 5:18:32pm

For the record, there has been at least one extended, civil, thoughtful discussion about Rachel Corrie here recently, though I’m certain the OP didn’t intend it to be such (he has since been banned).

wrenchwench Thu, Mar 21, 2013 5:38:05pm

re: #57 CuriousLurker

For the record, there has been at least one extended, civil, thoughtful discussion about Rachel Corrie here recently, though I’m certain the OP didn’t intend it to be such (he has since been banned).

That reminds me. Bob Levin is another missing and missed person.

CuriousLurker Thu, Mar 21, 2013 5:42:25pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

That reminds me. Bob Levin is another missing and missed person.

Yeah, he’s another one that never returned after the election. We had some pretty good discussions here in the Pages, so I kinda miss him. I hope he’s doing well.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Mar 22, 2013 10:42:01am

re: #53 Local Media Monitor