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1 EiMitch  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 5:58:19am

This is actually a very good point. I used to have those Cox & Forkum cartoons in my bookmarks. That, and other right wing crap I used to like, haunt me.

This does need to be said. The animosity needs to be reflected upon. We need to ask ourselves “what the f*** was the matter with me”.

2 Bulworth  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 6:55:47am

Yeah, it was a difficult time, for this and for many other reasons. Like the country was just going off the skids. This was also about the time when I came to regard the TV and cable “news” media as worse than useless (even the “liberal” MSNBC!). I pretty much haven’t returned to watching any of it, or to listening to CSPAN radio, which I also used to do. The vitriol and war-cheering largely had the effect of pushing me in the opposite direction.

3 Bulworth  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 6:57:42am

On the other hand, it was also this unique, ugly point in time in which I discovered the blogosphere (as we called it in ‘those days’).

4 alinuxguru  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 9:52:51am

Sorry, this article seems to neglect Code Pink, UFPJ, PSM, and other fringe anti-war groups. It seems to give these virulently anti-Semitic and anti-American groups a free pass. Do you paint every registered Republican the same as Michele Bachmann or Paul Ryan?

5 Tiny alien kittens are watching you  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 10:32:24am

re: #4 alinuxguru

Sorry, this article seems to neglect Code Pink, UFPJ, PSM, and other fringe anti-war groups. It seems to give these virulently anti-Semitic and anti-American groups a free pass. Do you paint every registered Republican the same as Michele Bachmann or Paul Ryan?

What about what happened to the Dixie Chicks? Organized CD burnings and crushings, bans on their music at radio stations, DJs being suspended for playing their music anyway to protest the bans. All because they dared to criticize the Presidents push for war and said they were embarrassed that he came from Texas (like all of them did).

I didn’t read read anything about giving “giving anti-semitic and anti-American groups a free pass” into that article. What I read concerned writers and media figures use of their position to belittle, disparage and call unpatriotic anyone attempting to voice what turned out to be very legitimate concerns about President Bush’s rush to war in Iraq. In fact the authors main focus is on how these people have since come around to share the viewpoint that the war was a mistake but have never publicly acknowledged or confronted the role they played in helping it to make it happen.

If we learn nothing from our mistakes, if we deny them, if we ignore them, or worse pretend that they simply never happened, then we are surely doomed to repeat them…

6 Aligarr  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 11:32:28am

Deja Vu man , I ‘ve been here before , just like Vietnam . Protest the war and you’re a dirty pinko rat . Chicken -hawks abound . Even after getting drafted and coming home we got it from both ends , the protesters at the airport , and the ‘regular patriot citizens ’ when we protested even in our worn Army greens . These fuckers reproduce .

7 alinuxguru  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 11:34:54am

re: #5 Tiny alien kittens are watching you

What about what happened to the Dixie Chicks? Organized CD burnings and crushings, bans on their music at radio stations, ….

I wholly support the destruction of Dixie Chick CDs. But purely on their merit. The works of Justin Bieber, Ke$ha, and any band with a keytar
also should suffer a similar fate.

8 Destro  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 12:43:15pm

re: #7 alinuxguru

Seriously? Come on you are better than that.

Why did the Dixie Chick attack on Bush sting so much for those on the pro Iraq war side? Also, those that supported the Iraq war of choice did more to damage the American and Israeli stance (as articulated by the neocons) in the Middle East more than anything Code Pink ever did or say.

9 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 12:45:11pm

A little story about how irrational people can be about war.

Several decades ago I treated myself to dinner at a local restaurant. Being the avid reader I am I took this book along.

When I went to the cash register to pay I lay the book down on the counter. The person at the cash register looked at it and announced, “If you were in my area I wouldn’t have served you.”

I cocked an eye at him, gave him a stare that I hoped displayed my distaste of his idiotic statement and replied, “If I was reading a book on cancer would you think I was in favour of that too?”

Properly chastened he rang up my meal. I paid and left.

The point is I was opposed to the Iraq war. It was stupid. There was no rational reason for it, not even a strategic reason. I was opposed because my understanding of conflict lead me to believe that Iraq could only end in tears.

That is why the people attacking those who opposed the war make me so angry. The protesters weren’t ignorant (although probably many were). The supporters were the ignorant ones. And that ignorance lead them to attack one of the most basic freedoms of any democracy; the right to free speech. You can disagree with some one, even from a position of ignorance. You cannot interfere with their right to express that disagreement. Which is what all these personal attacks amounted to.

10 alinuxguru  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 1:44:04pm

re: #8 Destro

The Dixie Chicks forgot the cardinal rule — never piss off your demographic. Ozzy Osbourne pissed on the Alamo. His fans love him.

Do I feel bad for the Dixie Chicks that people exercised their own freedom of speech to burn DC albums? No, I am not a hypocrite. They lawfully bought the DC albums and destroyed them. Good for them.

But, we digress, when CodePink and UFJP come out and actively condemn America and American servicemen in the way that they did — going so far as to make outlandish claims like their were 100,000 innocent fatalities that is not being anti-war — that is being anti-American. There is a difference between honest protest and hate.

The article paints too broad of a brush. It infers that anyone that is anti-war was correct and were villified. That is far from the truth.

11 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 2:08:22pm

re: #10 alinuxguru

The article paints too broad of a brush. It infers that anyone that is anti-war was correct and were villified. That is far from the truth.

Really? That wasn’t my experience. I lost a fair number of on-line friends when I opposed the Iraq war. They couldn’t tell the difference between dissent and terrorism, to paraphrase Vaclav Havel.

The way you are fixating on minor groups like Code Pink and UFJP shows that you are having that difficulty as well.

12 Destro  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 2:12:51pm

re: #10 alinuxguru

The Dixie Chicks forgot the cardinal rule — never piss off your demographic. Ozzy Osbourne pissed on the Alamo. His fans love him.

Do I feel bad for the Dixie Chicks that people exercised their own freedom of speech to burn DC albums? No, I am not a hypocrite. They lawfully bought the DC albums and destroyed them. Good for them.

But, we digress, when CodePink and UFJP come out and actively condemn America and American servicemen in the way that they did — going so far as to make outlandish claims like their were 100,000 innocent fatalities that is not being anti-war — that is being anti-American. There is a difference between honest protest and hate.

The article paints too broad of a brush. It infers that anyone that is anti-war was correct and were villified. That is far from the truth.

You buy the bullshit that the Dixie Chicks push back was authentic and not worked up by the Republican noise machine?

There were 100,000 innocent fatalities over Iraq and fucking counting.

If admitting that is anti-American then I am a proud traitor and will continue in my treasonous ways.

13 alinuxguru  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 2:42:58pm

re: #12 Destro

You buy the bullshit that the Dixie Chicks push back was authentic and not worked up by the Republican noise machine?

It does not matter. Was the reaction to the Dixie Chicks overblown? Maybe. But people are free to dissent the dissent.

There were 100,000 innocent fatalities over Iraq and fucking counting.

Says the Lancet “study”. The 100,000 number has been repeated so often that people now accept it as truth, no matter how bad the study was.

If admitting that is anti-American then I am a proud traitor and will continue in my treasonous ways.

Did I say your actions were anti-American, no? But were some members of CodePink that called for the death of American servicemen anti-American? Quite frankly, they were not only anti-American, they were repugnant and beyond the pale. And, that is my objection with the article. It conflates any condemnation of anti-war protesters with legitimate condemnation of anti-war protesters.

Like I stated, the people who destroyed Dixie Chicks CDs were within their rights to do so. The people who called for the death of the Dixie Chicks were not. I do not see how the distinction is lost on you.

14 Destro  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 3:50:35pm

re: #13 alinuxguru

The controversial Lancet report dealt with deaths in the 600K range. The Iraqi death toll at 100K is accepted as accurate.

15 Local Media Monitor  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 4:19:44pm

re: #1 EiMitch

That, and other right wing crap I used to like, haunt me.

This does need to be said. The animosity needs to be reflected upon. We need to ask ourselves “what the f*** was the matter with me”.

You do a great deed. Good for you.

16 Local Media Monitor  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 4:21:17pm

re: #12 Destro

You buy the bullshit that the Dixie Chicks push back was authentic and not worked up by the Republican noise machine?

There were 100,000 innocent fatalities over Iraq and fucking counting.

If admitting that is anti-American then I am a proud traitor and will continue in my treasonous ways.

Destro, you are wise

17 Local Media Monitor  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 4:31:04pm

Thank you, “Why I Never”, for this page. How many days should we keep this topic alive, or post a new page on it? How about 4477 days, one for each dead US soldier in Iraq? 100,000+ days for every dead Iraqi? Seven years of days, for length of the war? A trillion days for the dollars? Maybe count the things that the trillion bucks could have paid for— how many public works programs, how many school closings?

18 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 6:03:15pm

re: #17 Local Media Monitor

What would the value of a page every day be?

19 stabby  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 6:34:11pm

It was exactly the same in the other direction.

When I tried to argue in favor of the war in starbucks and other public places, people reacted very badly.

One guy ranted at me then somehow, thoroughly irrationally, decided that there was some reason to threaten to call the police. Odd because he was the only person yelling. I hadn’t really been able to even get a word in edgewise.

I got a similar reaction from a not-very-employed journalism school graduate from Berkeley. We were getting along great until he realized that I supported the war.

His trantrum in person, and then in email afterwards was amazingly abusive.

20 Gus  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 6:43:26pm

re: #17 Local Media Monitor

Thank you, “Why I Never”, for this page. How many days should we keep this topic alive, or post a new page on it? How about 4477 days, one for each dead US soldier in Iraq? 100,000+ days for every dead Iraqi? Seven years of days, for length of the war? A trillion days for the dollars? Maybe count the things that the trillion bucks could have paid for— how many public works programs, how many school closings?

Did you vote in the 2000 election?

21 Gus  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 6:47:17pm

Many people didn’t vote in 2000 because of Lieberman. Conor Friedersdorf suggested to his readers that he wouldn’t be voting for Obama for certain puritanical reasons. If the Iraq War was brought to us by the Republican, George W. Bush? What would have been the potential result of staying home and allowing a Romney win?

22 stabby  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 6:57:11pm

re: #16 Local Media Monitor

I have some doubts about the concept behind counting every sectarian massacre in Iraq as casualties of the war.

If Sunnis are still blowing up crowds of Shiite pilgrims 200 years from now, will they still count as casualties of our war?

How about all of the massacres that happened before the war, are they really different?

Maybe we should try to figure out how many millions of Shiites and Kurds were slaughtered BEFORE the war and count them as our fault by reverse causality. I mean if there’s no difference from the ones we’re counting now…

23 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 22, 2013 8:30:19pm

re: #10 alinuxguru

The Dixie Chicks forgot the cardinal rule — never piss off your demographic. Ozzy Osbourne pissed on the Alamo. His fans love him.

Do I feel bad for the Dixie Chicks that people exercised their own freedom of speech to burn DC albums? No, I am not a hypocrite. They lawfully bought the DC albums and destroyed them. Good for them.

But, we digress, when CodePink and UFJP come out and actively condemn America and American servicemen in the way that they did — going so far as to make outlandish claims like their were 100,000 innocent fatalities that is not being anti-war — that is being anti-American. There is a difference between honest protest and hate.

The article paints too broad of a brush. It infers that anyone that is anti-war was correct and were villified. That is far from the truth.

Agreed. Many of those who said they were anti-war were far left loons like “World Can’t Wait”. It was entirely appropriate to mock the lunatics as unAmerican, because unAmerican is what they are.

24 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 3:03:21am

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Many of those who said they were anti-war were far left loons like “World Can’t Wait”. It was entirely appropriate to mock the lunatics as unAmerican, because unAmerican is what they are.

Fuck you, Dark. I was anti-war, and so were many, many good people that I knew. And we were right, and if we had been listened to, far more US soldiers would be alive today and America would be billions of dollars richer.

25 palomino  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 4:09:13am

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Many of those who said they were anti-war were far left loons like “World Can’t Wait”. It was entirely appropriate to mock the lunatics as unAmerican, because unAmerican is what they are.

So, the presence of some “far left loons” discredits the entire anti-war position? Anyone who opposed the war was tainted by Code Pink? There were plenty of legitimate reasons, whether right or wrong, to oppose the war that involved no anti-Americanism. Your logic is weak.

Now that a majority of Americans disapprove of the War, are we all to be lumped in with the dastardly unAmericans to which you refer? It seems like being a shill for a lost cause would get tiring and cause some cognitive dissonance. It’s like you’re screaming at a train to come back, after it left the station years ago. A total dead end.

26 Kronocide  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 7:30:13am

Code Pink Strawman

I bought some of the bullshit and supported the war but have been questioning that for years now. But never did I think people who were against it were ‘un-American’ or supporting the enemy.

That devolution of the conversation shows you can’t argue for the war on its merits and have to attack the character of your opponent.

27 Kronocide  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 8:12:57am

re: #4 alinuxguru

Sorry, this article seems to neglect Code Pink, UFPJ, PSM, and other fringe anti-war groups. It seems to give these virulently anti-Semitic and anti-American groups a free pass. Do you paint every registered Republican the same as Michele Bachmann or Paul Ryan?

What a stupid thing to say. The validity of the article has nothing to do with ‘fringe’ groups.

Your opinion is invalid because you didn’t reject Person X’s opinion.

28 SteveMcGazi  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:18:56pm

many of the war supporters who mocked the protestors had one thing in common, and that persists today. In the conversationa and online debates I had, the supporters first never understood my objection (That the US was better off with Hussein in power) but they thought they were such profiles in courage when in fact they were abject cowards. With issues like the war, warrantless wiretapping, torture and so on, the supporters were so desparate to cast aside the Bill of Rights and everything America stands for so they could be free from terrorist attack. They all just wanted to get their Winston Churchill on. That cowardice continues today when people are afraid to try terrorism suspects in court like the criminals they are.


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