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1 Destro  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 10:14:12am

Debka is to news as “Finding Bigfoot” is to science.

2 Aligarr  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 10:52:03am

I don’t think the response from Erdigan was ungracious . Unless of course that is what Debka is saying . I don’t think the Turks deserved an apology myself . But if you look at the logic ….what better way to disarm a potential enemy .
Look at the big picture , Erdigan was pandering to islamic groups by even allowing that flotilla . But he underestimated the punks that were on board and the Israeli response . Turkey needs the US , and Turkey knows the US is Israels staunchest ally . So the apology also disarms Erdigan’s potential competition . Smart move by all parties involved .

3 blueraven  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 11:55:42am

Maybe Obama did Netanyahu a solid. Israel doesn’t need to be at odds with Turkey right now.

It is time to think strategically instead of small-ball petty grievances about what someone might have said.

Credit can be shared by all if Turkey and Israel are, once again, close allies.

4 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 12:08:22pm

The response was not from Erdogan, it was from his foreign minister. And it was ungracious and gloating. It’s a good thing that Israel and Turkey might be on the road to better relations, but I have little or no confidence that Turkey’s leaders are well intentioned. I think Erdogan, Davotaglu, et al are snakes.

5 theye1  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 6:21:46pm

re: #2 Aligarr

Erdogan isn’t pandering to Islamic groups, he was pandering to his constituency. Israel is no more well liked in Turkey then in say Iraq.

6 Aligarr  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 4:25:48am

re: #5 theye1

Maybe so , but Turkey needs the US for a number of reasons .Being a muslim nation , I wouldn’t expect any love for Israel , but the same can be said for Lebanon ,Syria , Jordan ,Egypt and Saudi Arabia .And Jordan , the Saudis ,and yes even Egypt needs the US . By the US solidifying relations with Israel , it limits the options of these countries in dealing with Israel .

7 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:04:52am

re: #4 _RememberTonyC

I don’t get why you’re saying that Israel did this for Obama’s sake, rather than, y’know, because it’s important for them to have good diplomatic relations with Turkey.

8 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 9:36:33am

re: #7 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Because … You know … Obama ASKED him to.

9 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 11:11:24am

re: #8 _RememberTonyC

Because … You know … Obama ASKED him to.

Where is that?

10 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 2:59:35pm

re: #9 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Where is that?

I think any reconciliation between Turkey and Israel is to be applauded, so I am not criticizing the President. But given how his foreign policy has gone in the region, he needed a boost and this gives him one. The fact that it took place in a private setting on the tarmac as the Prez was preparing to leave Israel suggests strongly that this was something Obama might have asked for. I have no problem with Bibi doing it as a favor to the POTUS. I hope the Turks will respond with something other than the back of their hand.

11 blueraven  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 4:52:35pm

re: #10 _RememberTonyC

I think any reconciliation between Turkey and Israel is to be applauded, so I am not criticizing the President. But given how his foreign policy has gone in the region, he needed a boost and this gives him one. The fact that it took place in a private setting on the tarmac as the Prez was preparing to leave Israel suggests strongly that this was something Obama might have asked for. I have no problem with Bibi doing it as a favor to the POTUS. I hope the Turks will respond with something other than the back of their hand.

That is a ridiculous assumption.

12 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:07:30pm

Stuff like this falls under the category of “quid pro quo,” because Bibi got something he wanted from Obama. It is anything but a ridiculous assumption.

13 blueraven  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:57:12pm

re: #12 _RememberTonyC

Stuff like this falls under the category of “quid pro quo,” because Bibi got something he wanted from Obama. It is anything but a ridiculous assumption.

If what you say is true, and I am not saying it is, the whole premise and title of your piece is bullshit. Quid pro quo would indicate a mutual benefit, not Netanyahu doing Obama a solid. But thanks for playing.

14 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 9:13:20pm

re: #10 _RememberTonyC

I think any reconciliation between Turkey and Israel is to be applauded, so I am not criticizing the President. But given how his foreign policy has gone in the region, he needed a boost and this gives him one. The fact that it took place in a private setting on the tarmac as the Prez was preparing to leave Israel suggests strongly that this was something Obama might have asked for. I have no problem with Bibi doing it as a favor to the POTUS. I hope the Turks will respond with something other than the back of their hand.

I’m asking for you to cite Obama asking him to do this.

Do you have anything, or are you just wildly speculating? Because thinking Israel would do something this significant because Obama asked them is unconvincing. Israel needs Turkey as an ally.

15 theye1  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 9:39:35pm

re: #6 Aligarr

You’re overestimating Israel’s influence. USA’s relationship with Turkey will continue, regardless of Israel.

16 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 4:09:52am

Like I said, Erdogan is a snake …

algemeiner.com

I think Netanyahu probably expected this and apologized to Erdogan as a favor to the President. Bibi wanted to help the Prez. And nothing on this thread has convinced me otherwise. Erdogan is a piece of shit …

17 dragonath  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 8:02:04am

Algemeiner is kind of a joke. Posting the article under the tag “Neo-Ottoman Empire” should tell what kind of editorial policy they have.

18 CuriousLurker  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 8:48:20am

re: #17 dragonath

Algemeiner is kind of a joke. Posting the article under the tag “Neo-Ottoman Empire” should tell what kind of editorial policy they have.

I agree on Algemeiner. Hyperbolic headlines are usually a dead giveaway (it’s one of the reasons I no longer read HuffPo).

Someone recently sent me a link to another Algemeiner article. One of the sources they cited was a Tundra Tabloids blog post. The embedded Dutch TV video is from another right wing site, MRC TV, which is part of the Media Research Center network. If you view the video on the MRC TV site, you’ll see that it was uploaded by the Vlad Tepes blog (noted directly under the title, above the date).

For anyone who doesn’t know, both Tundra Tabloids & Vald Tepes are virulently anti-Muslim hate sites that are pro-Fjordman. Using them as a source for a story about Muslims is akin to referencing Stormfront for a story about Jews.

As I told the person who sent me the link, there might be some truth to the story, but I wouldn’t change my opinion about it being 100% crap unless they went out and searched for a version that didn’t lead back to hate blogs.

19 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 10:24:45am

Generally the stuff I post has quotes from the principals that can be verified through other sites. Algemeiner and Times of Israel are two blogs that seem fairly moderate to me. I don’t have the time or motivation to vet every site on the internet, but if a story features quotes from a newsmaker like Erdogan, it’s different from reading an opinion piece on the site. Erdogan’s antics are very easy to follow on any number of web sites as he is very clear in his own hatred of Israel. He has certainly done nothing to earn goodwill or “the benefit of the doubt” vis-a-vis his actions and comments towards Israel. His own country has plenty of dark chapters in its history when it comes to the original 20th century genocide (Armenians 1915) and its more recent treatment of the Kurds. And his recent comments about Zionism being a crime against humanity are despicable. Placing trust in the good intentions of such a man is naive at best. I think Netanyahu understands it. And that is why I feel his apology was something President Obama facilitated. And as a good friend, I think Bibi wanted to send the POTUS on his way home with a foreign policy “win.”

20 CuriousLurker  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 10:49:52am

FWIW, I find it increasingly difficult to find objective news articles for important stories, especially ones on sensitive subjects such as this one.

While some articles seem to be characterizing PM Netanyahu’s apology as some sort of favor to President Obama, others, for example the NY Times, have characterized it as the result of arm-twisting by POTUS. I find this really annoying as I don’t believe diplomatic relations in the Mideast are nearly that black & white.

I strongly disagree with TonyC regarding Algemeiner for the reasons stated in my #18 above, however I did find the Times of Israel’s article on the matter to be the one that seemed the most well-balanced and least hyperbolic of the half dozen or so that I read.

21 CuriousLurker  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 10:56:18am

re: #14 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I’m asking for you to cite Obama asking him to do this.

Do you have anything, or are you just wildly speculating? Because thinking Israel would do something this significant because Obama asked them is unconvincing. Israel needs Turkey as an ally.

POTUS did ask (see the links in my #20). It’s the characterization of why he asked and the manner in which he did it, as well as PM Netanyahu’s reason for complying, that’s getting all the spin.

22 CuriousLurker  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 11:23:17am

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

Generally the stuff I post has quotes from the principals that can be verified through other sites. Algemeiner and Times of Israel are two blogs that seem fairly moderate to me. I don’t have the time or motivation to vet every site on the internet, but if a story features quotes from a newsmaker like Erdogan, it’s different from reading an opinion piece on the site. Erdogan’s antics are very easy to follow on any number of web sites as he is very clear in his own hatred of Israel….

I don’t vet every site on the internet either, but I do keep my eyes open for reporting that seems slanted, even if it comes from a publication I generally trust to be fair.

As for Erdogan, I haven’t seen anyone in this thread defending him or denying things he’s said or done, nor has anyone denied the Armenian genocide or Turkey’s treatment of the Kurds.

23 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 5:34:34pm

re: #22 CuriousLurker

CL … I have not criticized anyone on this thread for defending Erdogan because I haven’t seen it either. My disgust at Erdogan is directed at HIM and not at anyone for supposedly defending him. Not sure why you thought I was calling out any Lizards for doing that. I do believe that President Obama has more faith in the goodwill of Erdogan than I think is healthy. But given the mess in the Mideast with Egypt and Syria, I think he is increasingly concerned about finding anyone in the region he can rely on other than Jordan’s King Abdullah and Israel. Look at how our supposed ally Iraq is enabling Iran’s intervention in Syria and how Maliki lied to John Kerry’s face about it. I hope President Obama succeeds in the region because it is good for freedom if he does. But Erdogan is someone who has not earned trust or goodwill and the POTUS needs to be wary of him.

24 CuriousLurker  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 5:39:07pm

re: #23 _RememberTonyC

Fair enough.


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