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38 comments

1 Destro  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 12:00:55pm

I encounter it a lot as well.

2 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 12:29:21pm

Irony is truly dead when Glenn Greenwald is criticizing other people for ad hominem attacks.

3 stabby  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 12:51:54pm


There is so much wrong with the things Chomsky has written, and so much wrong with the things he deliberately avoids acknowledging that to focus on the ad hominem attacks is to find the only way he can be defended, by burning down straw men.

The article couldn’t be more meaningless.

4 Aligarr  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 1:30:06pm

” departs from political orthodoxies ” ……nothing wrong with that . I take exception to Chomsky’s departure from reality . Usually the people that afford him any authority are in the same denial .

5 Destro  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 2:10:23pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Can you cite an example?

6 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 2:16:09pm

re: #5 Destro

Yes. I wrote a straightforward report about a terror plot to bomb the PATH train system, and expressed no opinion about it at all:

littlegreenfootballs.com

A report at Fox says that the terror plot disrupted by the FBI was directed not at the Holland Tunnel, but at the PATH train system.

Greenwald posted a link to my report with this description:

…ecstatic over this story, celebrating it as a great and heroic blow for the Bush administration and as proof that The Terrorists really are the Epic Threat they’ve been claiming.

That’s not just an ad hominem attack, it’s a flat out, over the top lie. I never wrote (or even thought) any of that.

7 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 2:18:17pm

Anyone who has ever publicly criticized Glenn Greenwald will have similar stories, liberals and conservatives alike. That’s why it’s a little hard for me to swallow his lectures about ad hominem attacks.

8 Local Media Monitor  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 2:35:42pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

That’s not an ad hominem attack. It’s not saying, like in this simple example of an ad hominem attack, “This person is no good and therefore his point is no good.” Here’s another example. In the text you excerpted, he makes no statement directed at you personally, makes no comment on your character or tries to discredit you so as to discredit your argument.

9 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 2:52:03pm

re: #8 Local Media Monitor

In the text you excerpted, he makes no statement directed at you personally, makes no comment on your character or tries to discredit you so as to discredit your argument.

Nonsense. Saying that I was “ecstatic” over a report of a terror threat is a very obvious personal attack.

10 blueraven  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 3:16:09pm

re: #8 Local Media Monitor

That’s not an ad hominem attack. It’s not saying, like in this simple example of an ad hominem attack, “This person is no good and therefore his point is no good.” Here’s another example. In the text you excerpted, he makes no statement directed at you personally, makes no comment on your character or tries to discredit you so as to discredit your argument.

That is exactly what Greenwald did. Saying that Charles was ecstatic and celebrating a threat; how can that not be interpreted as “he is a bad person with contemptible motives”?

On a side note, why the fuck are you even here? All you ever do is bitch.

11 Kronocide  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 3:57:53pm

re: #8 Local Media Monitor

In the text you excerpted, he makes no statement directed at you personally, makes no comment on your character or tries to discredit you so as to discredit your argument.

Absolutely does speak to character.

12 Gus  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 4:06:38pm
13 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 6:02:05pm

re: #12 Gus

Yup, that’s what I’m talking about.

14 Destro  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 6:53:36pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Thanks for that example and that was an unwarranted attack on you.

I have always been of the opinion that the USA is under threat by radical Islamists but the American response under Bush was both wrong and made things worse and pro war jingoism meant we don’t examine how American policies maybe linked to this Islamist threat (how for example supporting Pakistan who supports the Taliban makes our war terror a futile exercise).

15 Local Media Monitor  Sat, Mar 23, 2013 9:12:37pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Didn’t you recently say “Living in the past and carrying grudges kind of sucks”?

16 Kronocide  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 4:22:11am

Aren’t you living in the past and carrying a grudge?

17 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:03:54am

re: #8 Local Media Monitor

You’re really not very good at monitoring the media.

18 Lancelot Link  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:17:08am

re: #15 Local Media Monitor

Geez, if you’re so hung up on what folks said and did 10 years ago, you really shouldn’t be championing Glenn Greenwald, of all people.

19 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 11:13:49am

re: #18 Lancelot Link

WOW. That doesn’t make him look good.

20 Local Media Monitor  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 11:22:03am

re: #18 Lancelot Link

um, I did not champion Greenwald. I’ve never had much reason to even notice him.

21 blueraven  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:09:15pm

re: #20 Local Media Monitor

um, I did not champion Greenwald. I’ve never had much reason to even notice him.

OK you defended him, against the charge of using ad hominem attacks.
Whatever. Kind of pathetic really.

22 Local Media Monitor  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 10:06:09pm

re: #21 blueraven

Kind of pathetic that you apparently don’t have much reading comprehension. I pointed out that the argument wasn’t ad hominem; that is not defending Greenwald. If everyone is suddenly so upset about ad hominem attacks from a long time ago, how about this one by the master and commander: littlegreenfootballs.com

23 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 1:02:37am

re: #22 Local Media Monitor

I pointed out that the argument wasn’t ad hominem…

No, you asserted this, and you were obviously incorrect.

24 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 3:28:03am

re: #22 Local Media Monitor

But the argument is ad hominem. It levels an accusation of sick enjoyment that’s not true. Kind of like you did the other day, remember?

25 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 4:08:44am

Thank you all for participating in this experiment. It turned out pretty much the way I thought it would.

26 Aligarr  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 5:45:33am

Greenwald’s tactics are similar if not the same as the wingnuts , when they allege to know what other people are thinking and presume to know their motives , based on what they “say ” are those person’s thoughts .The Tea Party has made it’s living on just those tactics .

27 Local Media Monitor  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 1:15:58pm

re: #23 Charles Johnson

Since you’ve kept this thread alive today, are you ever going to address how it is that you come down on someone else for long-ago ad hominem attacks, when you’ve done the exact same thing yourself? re:littlegreenfootballs.com

28 Gus  Mon, Mar 25, 2013 9:51:35pm

re: #27 Local Media Monitor

Since you’ve kept this thread alive today, are you ever going to address how it is that you come down on someone else for long-ago ad hominem attacks, when you’ve done the exact same thing yourself? re:littlegreenfootballs.com

You remind me of a religious fundamentalist. You get to judge Charles yet we know nothing of you. Please, tell us something about you. How you were able to find perfection in your being. How did you come to be this perfect and whole human being. I’d be interested to know.

29 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 6:40:15am

re: #27 Local Media Monitor

It’s pretty bizarre the way you demand questions for answers for others and hold yourself as judge of them, while dodging any and all hard questions about yourself and what you do.

It’s massively unimpressive.

30 Local Media Monitor  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 9:30:40am

re: #28 Gus
& you remind me of one of the flock

31 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 9:34:50am

re: #30 Local Media Monitor

& you remind me of one of the flock

That’s evidence that you’re not paying enough attention here, or you’re just a really poor judge of people. Always amusing when a poor judge gets judgmental.

32 Local Media Monitor  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:09:11pm

re: #29 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut
It’s “pretty bizarre” that you want random posters to be way more accountable than the very public person in charge. The overt double standards (that’s the nice word), the ignoring of pertinent & politely worded questions, and the memory-holes aren’t “massively unimpressive” to you, obviously.

33 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 8:07:57pm

C’mon you guys, it’s easy enough to find him if you just look at his profile & Twitter account. Apparently, he fancies himself to be some sort of caped crusader who has decided his current mission—or at least one of them—is to come to LGF and shine his “devastatingly bright light” on Charles’ past “foul deeds and dead files”.

That is, of course, assuming the identity he publicly presents wasn’t just made up for shits & giggles.

Never a dull moment on the interwebs, LOL.

34 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 9:03:37pm

CAPTAIN CAAAAAVVVVEEEEMAN!

35 Local Media Monitor  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:48:06pm

How appropriate on a thread about ad hominem attacks that several people would start demanding my papers and stalking my identity, with Charles Johnson himself coming in to click plus or minus on every post—granting his cyber approval to these fallacious and sleazy tactics.

36 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 27, 2013 12:27:35am

Oh lordy, the melodrama.

Can someone please fetch the smelling salts and that extra fainting couch we put away? It looks like we might need them in here…

*makes mental note to bring passport next time in case someone demands papers*

37 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 27, 2013 8:13:14am

re: #33 CuriousLurker

C’mon you guys, it’s easy enough to find him if you just look at his profile & Twitter account. Apparently, he fancies himself to be some sort of caped crusader who has decided his current mission—or at least one of them—is to come to LGF and shine his “devastatingly bright light” on Charles’ past “foul deeds and dead files”.

That is, of course, assuming the identity he publicly presents wasn’t just made up for shits & giggles.

Never a dull moment on the interwebs, LOL.

From dating fraud to lizard badgering, nice range! Of course the dating fraud page has ads for hot Asian women and Thais who want to get married.

Same problem there with spelling in the headlines:

Former LSD Bishop Accused of Defrauding Church Members

Wasn’t posted by our friend here, but still… ‘LDS’ is what was meant, and written in the body of the article.

38 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 27, 2013 5:47:13pm

re: #35 Local Media Monitor

How appropriate on a thread about ad hominem attacks that several people would start demanding my papers and stalking my identity, with Charles Johnson himself coming in to click plus or minus on every post—granting his cyber approval to these fallacious and sleazy tactics.

Posting a link to your own website does not equal stalking.
HTFU.


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