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An interesting opinion piece in The Guardian about how the farther a person’s ideas deviate from the norm the less people deal with their points and deal in calumny instead. It’s a behaviour that, as a heretic, I have encountered many times.
Rather sad actually.
38 comments
2 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Mar 23, 2013 12:29:21pm |
Irony is truly dead when Glenn Greenwald is criticizing other people for ad hominem attacks.
| 3 |
stabby Sat, Mar 23, 2013 12:51:54pm |
…
There is so much wrong with the things Chomsky has written, and so much wrong with the things he deliberately avoids acknowledging that to focus on the ad hominem attacks is to find the only way he can be defended, by burning down straw men.
The article couldn’t be more meaningless.
| 4 |
Aligarr Sat, Mar 23, 2013 1:30:06pm |
” departs from political orthodoxies ” ……nothing wrong with that . I take exception to Chomsky’s departure from reality . Usually the people that afford him any authority are in the same denial .
| 6 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Mar 23, 2013 2:16:09pm |
re: #5 Destro
Yes. I wrote a straightforward report about a terror plot to bomb the PATH train system, and expressed no opinion about it at all:
A report at Fox says that the terror plot disrupted by the FBI was directed not at the Holland Tunnel, but at the PATH train system.
Greenwald posted a link to my report with this description:
…ecstatic over this story, celebrating it as a great and heroic blow for the Bush administration and as proof that The Terrorists really are the Epic Threat they’ve been claiming.
That’s not just an ad hominem attack, it’s a flat out, over the top lie. I never wrote (or even thought) any of that.
| 7 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Mar 23, 2013 2:18:17pm |
Anyone who has ever publicly criticized Glenn Greenwald will have similar stories, liberals and conservatives alike. That’s why it’s a little hard for me to swallow his lectures about ad hominem attacks.
| 8 |
Local Media Monitor Sat, Mar 23, 2013 2:35:42pm |
re: #6 Charles Johnson
That’s not an ad hominem attack. It’s not saying, like in this simple example of an ad hominem attack, “This person is no good and therefore his point is no good.” Here’s another example. In the text you excerpted, he makes no statement directed at you personally, makes no comment on your character or tries to discredit you so as to discredit your argument.
| 9 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Mar 23, 2013 2:52:03pm |
re: #8 Local Media Monitor
In the text you excerpted, he makes no statement directed at you personally, makes no comment on your character or tries to discredit you so as to discredit your argument.
Nonsense. Saying that I was “ecstatic” over a report of a terror threat is a very obvious personal attack.
| 10 |
blueraven Sat, Mar 23, 2013 3:16:09pm |
re: #8 Local Media Monitor
That’s not an ad hominem attack. It’s not saying, like in this simple example of an ad hominem attack, “This person is no good and therefore his point is no good.” Here’s another example. In the text you excerpted, he makes no statement directed at you personally, makes no comment on your character or tries to discredit you so as to discredit your argument.
That is exactly what Greenwald did. Saying that Charles was ecstatic and celebrating a threat; how can that not be interpreted as “he is a bad person with contemptible motives”?
On a side note, why the fuck are you even here? All you ever do is bitch.
| 11 |
Kronocide Sat, Mar 23, 2013 3:57:53pm |
re: #8 Local Media Monitor
In the text you excerpted, he makes no statement directed at you personally, makes no comment on your character or tries to discredit you so as to discredit your argument.
Absolutely does speak to character.
| 12 |
Gus Sat, Mar 23, 2013 4:06:38pm |
2011: Glenn Greenwald Jokes about President Obama Raping a Nun chirpstory.com/li/3666— Gus (@Gus_802) March 23, 2013
| 13 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Mar 23, 2013 6:02:05pm |
re: #12 Gus
Yup, that’s what I’m talking about.
| 14 |
Destro Sat, Mar 23, 2013 6:53:36pm |
re: #6 Charles Johnson
Thanks for that example and that was an unwarranted attack on you.
I have always been of the opinion that the USA is under threat by radical Islamists but the American response under Bush was both wrong and made things worse and pro war jingoism meant we don’t examine how American policies maybe linked to this Islamist threat (how for example supporting Pakistan who supports the Taliban makes our war terror a futile exercise).
| 15 |
Local Media Monitor Sat, Mar 23, 2013 9:12:37pm |
re: #6 Charles Johnson
Didn’t you recently say “Living in the past and carrying grudges kind of sucks”?
| 17 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:03:54am |
re: #8 Local Media Monitor
You’re really not very good at monitoring the media.
| 18 |
Lancelot Link Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:17:08am |
| 19 |
CriticalDragon1177 Sun, Mar 24, 2013 11:13:49am |
re: #18 Lancelot Link
WOW. That doesn’t make him look good.
| 20 |
Local Media Monitor Sun, Mar 24, 2013 11:22:03am |
re: #18 Lancelot Link
um, I did not champion Greenwald. I’ve never had much reason to even notice him.
| 21 |
blueraven Sun, Mar 24, 2013 5:09:15pm |
re: #20 Local Media Monitor
um, I did not champion Greenwald. I’ve never had much reason to even notice him.
OK you defended him, against the charge of using ad hominem attacks.
Whatever. Kind of pathetic really.
| 22 |
Local Media Monitor Sun, Mar 24, 2013 10:06:09pm |
re: #21 blueraven
Kind of pathetic that you apparently don’t have much reading comprehension. I pointed out that the argument wasn’t ad hominem; that is not defending Greenwald. If everyone is suddenly so upset about ad hominem attacks from a long time ago, how about this one by the master and commander: littlegreenfootballs.com
| 23 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Mar 25, 2013 1:02:37am |
re: #22 Local Media Monitor
I pointed out that the argument wasn’t ad hominem…
No, you asserted this, and you were obviously incorrect.
| 24 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Mon, Mar 25, 2013 3:28:03am |
re: #22 Local Media Monitor
But the argument is ad hominem. It levels an accusation of sick enjoyment that’s not true. Kind of like you did the other day, remember?
| 25 |
Romantic Heretic Mon, Mar 25, 2013 4:08:44am |
Thank you all for participating in this experiment. It turned out pretty much the way I thought it would.
| 26 |
Aligarr Mon, Mar 25, 2013 5:45:33am |
Greenwald’s tactics are similar if not the same as the wingnuts , when they allege to know what other people are thinking and presume to know their motives , based on what they “say ” are those person’s thoughts .The Tea Party has made it’s living on just those tactics .
| 27 |
Local Media Monitor Mon, Mar 25, 2013 1:15:58pm |
re: #23 Charles Johnson
Since you’ve kept this thread alive today, are you ever going to address how it is that you come down on someone else for long-ago ad hominem attacks, when you’ve done the exact same thing yourself? re:littlegreenfootballs.com
| 28 |
Gus Mon, Mar 25, 2013 9:51:35pm |
re: #27 Local Media Monitor
Since you’ve kept this thread alive today, are you ever going to address how it is that you come down on someone else for long-ago ad hominem attacks, when you’ve done the exact same thing yourself? re:littlegreenfootballs.com
You remind me of a religious fundamentalist. You get to judge Charles yet we know nothing of you. Please, tell us something about you. How you were able to find perfection in your being. How did you come to be this perfect and whole human being. I’d be interested to know.
| 29 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Mar 26, 2013 6:40:15am |
re: #27 Local Media Monitor
It’s pretty bizarre the way you demand questions for answers for others and hold yourself as judge of them, while dodging any and all hard questions about yourself and what you do.
It’s massively unimpressive.
| 30 |
Local Media Monitor Tue, Mar 26, 2013 9:30:40am |
re: #28 Gus
& you remind me of one of the flock
| 31 |
wrenchwench Tue, Mar 26, 2013 9:34:50am |
re: #30 Local Media Monitor
& you remind me of one of the flock
That’s evidence that you’re not paying enough attention here, or you’re just a really poor judge of people. Always amusing when a poor judge gets judgmental.
| 32 |
Local Media Monitor Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:09:11pm |
re: #29 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut
It’s “pretty bizarre” that you want random posters to be way more accountable than the very public person in charge. The overt double standards (that’s the nice word), the ignoring of pertinent & politely worded questions, and the memory-holes aren’t “massively unimpressive” to you, obviously.
| 33 |
CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 26, 2013 8:07:57pm |
C’mon you guys, it’s easy enough to find him if you just look at his profile & Twitter account. Apparently, he fancies himself to be some sort of caped crusader who has decided his current mission—or at least one of them—is to come to LGF and shine his “devastatingly bright light” on Charles’ past “foul deeds and dead files”.
That is, of course, assuming the identity he publicly presents wasn’t just made up for shits & giggles.
Never a dull moment on the interwebs, LOL.
| 35 |
Local Media Monitor Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:48:06pm |
How appropriate on a thread about ad hominem attacks that several people would start demanding my papers and stalking my identity, with Charles Johnson himself coming in to click plus or minus on every post—granting his cyber approval to these fallacious and sleazy tactics.
| 36 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 27, 2013 12:27:35am |
Oh lordy, the melodrama.
Can someone please fetch the smelling salts and that extra fainting couch we put away? It looks like we might need them in here…
*makes mental note to bring passport next time in case someone demands papers*
| 37 |
wrenchwench Wed, Mar 27, 2013 8:13:14am |
re: #33 CuriousLurker
C’mon you guys, it’s easy enough to find him if you just look at his profile & Twitter account. Apparently, he fancies himself to be some sort of caped crusader who has decided his current mission—or at least one of them—is to come to LGF and shine his “devastatingly bright light” on Charles’ past “foul deeds and dead files”.
That is, of course, assuming the identity he publicly presents wasn’t just made up for shits & giggles.
Never a dull moment on the interwebs, LOL.
From dating fraud to lizard badgering, nice range! Of course the dating fraud page has ads for hot Asian women and Thais who want to get married.
Same problem there with spelling in the headlines:
Former LSD Bishop Accused of Defrauding Church Members
Wasn’t posted by our friend here, but still… ‘LDS’ is what was meant, and written in the body of the article.
| 38 |
Varek Raith Wed, Mar 27, 2013 5:47:13pm |
re: #35 Local Media Monitor
How appropriate on a thread about ad hominem attacks that several people would start demanding my papers and stalking my identity, with Charles Johnson himself coming in to click plus or minus on every post—granting his cyber approval to these fallacious and sleazy tactics.
Posting a link to your own website does not equal stalking.
HTFU.
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