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1 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 4:43:58pm

Holy crap!

The more Christians get pushy, the more I realize just how frickin’ weird the whole idea is of some god needing blood sacrifices and that finally a man was sacrificed and his blood was good enough for that god to not want sacrifices anymore. That’s some messed up thinking.

2 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 4:44:32pm

…and yeah, I know, I know, I’m going to burn in hell. Whatever.

3 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 4:46:26pm

As a Christian, let me just say: This is completely and utterly reprehensible.

4 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 4:47:34pm

re: #1 Sionainn

Holy crap!

The more Christians get pushy, the more I realize just how frickin’ weird the whole idea is of some god needing blood sacrifices and that finally a man was sacrificed and his blood was good enough for that god to not want sacrifices anymore. That’s some messed up thinking.

Blood sacrifices go far beyond the Christian God, they’ve been a part of many religions and societal customs for thousands of years.

5 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 4:48:55pm

re: #4 Eclectic Cyborg

Blood sacrifices go far beyond the Christian God, they’ve been a part of many religions and societal customs for thousands of years.

Death and rebirth of the God, and ritual consumption of the God, are also traits Christianity has in common with other belief systems.

6 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 4:53:30pm

re: #1 Sionainn

Holy crap!

The more Christians get pushy, the more I realize just how frickin’ weird the whole idea is of some god needing blood sacrifices and that finally a man was sacrificed and his blood was good enough for that god to not want sacrifices anymore. That’s some messed up thinking.

In its favor, the Jewish and Christian tradition does not include human sacrifice. This lack was rather unusual back in the day.

7 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 4:55:10pm

re: #4 Eclectic Cyborg

Blood sacrifices go far beyond the Christian God, they’ve been a part of many religions and societal customs for thousands of years.

That’s true. I find the whole thing to be unbelievable.

8 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 4:59:18pm

re: #4 Eclectic Cyborg

Blood sacrifices go far beyond the Christian God, they’ve been a part of many religions and societal customs for thousands of years.

Still not reasonable.

9 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 5:06:30pm

What really irritates me about this is the blatant hypocrisy here. The school officials that did this would be the first to scream bloody murder if a public school did Islamic indoctrination of a similar sort.

Of course their opposition would not be principled —- they just want to be the one doing the indoctrination, and see other kinds of religion indoctrination as competition.

10 Kragar  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 5:15:30pm

Update with a link to the complaint and the conditions the students witnessed forcing them to sit thru the whole thing.

11 aagcobb  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 5:38:53pm

re: #6 EPR-radar

In its favor, the Jewish and Christian tradition does not include human sacrifice. This lack was rather unusual back in the day.

Actually there is a human sacrifice in the OT.

12 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 5:41:52pm

re: #11 aagcobb

Thanks for the information. I was unaware of this.

13 Cap'n Magic  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 6:11:56pm

Christians who complain openly about being persecuted are not Christians.

Christians who use any kind of force of any kind to proselytize and not Christians, and if they stay and continue to engage in such behavior betray Jesus’s own teachings of knocking the sands off the sandals and moving along.

14 Skip Intro  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 6:28:48pm

The school is claiming the indoctrination wasn’t mandatory.

This email from the school principal shows that’s a flat out lie.

Image: frazier-e-mail.png

15 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 6:31:40pm

re: #14 Skip Intro

Nice catch. As a further point, the slogan apparently at the bottom of the principal’s email is seriously authoritarian —- ‘learning is hammered and honed on the anvil of good teaching’

Yeesh.

16 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 6:33:48pm

re: #13 Cap’n Magic

Christians who complain openly about being persecuted are not Christians.

Assuming, of course, no actual persecution is taking place, as is the case for US wingnuts.

There are real issues of religious persecution of Christians in other parts of the world.

17 JeffFX  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 6:53:22pm

re: #13 Cap’n Magic

Christians who complain openly about being persecuted are not Christians.

Christians who use any kind of force of any kind to proselytize and not Christians, and if they stay and continue to engage in such behavior betray Jesus’s own teachings of knocking the sands off the sandals and moving along.

No True Christian.

18 Kragar  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 6:55:24pm

re: #17 JeffFX

No True Christian.

Methodists? Baptists? Lutherans?
///

19 dragonath  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 6:57:39pm

re: #1 Sionainn

Holy crap!

The more Christians get pushy, the more I realize just how frickin’ weird the whole idea is of some god needing blood sacrifices and that finally a man was sacrificed and his blood was good enough for that god to not want sacrifices anymore. That’s some messed up thinking.

Not to mention the completely arbitrary notion of animal sacrifice in the first place. If there’s a second coming I hope Jesus slaps all these people into the astral plane for completely missing the point.

20 PeterWolf  Thu, Apr 25, 2013 7:44:08pm

Education is what is needed, not indoctrination. But then, that’s exactly how the right sees teaching things like science and fact.

21 steve_davis  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 4:11:29am

re: #1 Sionainn

Holy crap!

The more Christians get pushy, the more I realize just how frickin’ weird the whole idea is of some god needing blood sacrifices and that finally a man was sacrificed and his blood was good enough for that god to not want sacrifices anymore. That’s some messed up thinking.

well, it’s messed-up thinking if your cartoonish summary of it is accurate, which of course it is not. Atheists who don’t bother to understand basic theology irritate me about as much as evangelicals who can’t be bothered with basic physics.

22 JeffFX  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 5:23:07am

re: #21 steve_davis

well, it’s messed-up thinking if your cartoonish summary of it is accurate, which of course it is not. Atheists who don’t bother to understand basic theology irritate me about as much as evangelicals who can’t be bothered with basic physics.

Do you really need to understand details of theology to realize that the supernatural exists only in story-telling and the human imagination? The details of the particular fantasy don’t really matter since we are dealing with fantasy, not reality. Even looking at it as fantasy, the idea of a god sacrificing part of himself to himself to appease himself is really poor story-telling. We have much more skilled writers these days.

23 Sionainn  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 5:25:26am

re: #21 steve_davis

well, it’s messed-up thinking if your cartoonish summary of it is accurate, which of course it is not. Atheists who don’t bother to understand basic theology irritate me about as much as evangelicals who can’t be bothered with basic physics.

Hey, dude, I’m well-versed in theology. How the hell do you think I became an atheist? The more I learned, the more it made absolutely no sense to me that people could believe any of it.

My original statement was based solely on the OP and what the students were told about sacrifices.

24 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 8:05:59am

I just don’t get why a merciful and compassionate G-D would create humanity just in order to send them to eternal hell.

25 Skip Intro  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 8:13:58am

re: #24 Vicious Babushka

I just don’t get why a merciful and compassionate G-D would create humanity just in order to send them to eternal hell.

For the same reason that same God tormented and tortured his loyal servant Job; just for the hell of it.

26 SidewaysQuark  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 8:23:36am

re: #6 EPR-radar

In its favor, the Jewish and Christian tradition does not include human sacrifice. This lack was rather unusual back in the day.

If the best factor a cult has in its favor is that was mighty progressive and revolutionary 2000 years ago, then that’s PART of the problem….

27 SidewaysQuark  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 8:25:39am

re: #21 steve_davis

well, it’s messed-up thinking if your cartoonish summary of it is accurate, which of course it is not. Atheists who don’t bother to understand basic theology irritate me about as much as evangelicals who can’t be bothered with basic physics.

The only thing is, physics is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more important than religion, because unlike religion, it actually works. One shouldn’t nearly bother you as much as the other based on that alone.

28 JeffFX  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 8:44:38am

re: #24 Vicious Babushka

I just don’t get why a merciful and compassionate G-D would create humanity just in order to send them to eternal hell.

That concept freaked me out when I was 7 and didn’t understand that the supernatural is imaginary.

29 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 8:59:52am

Shrugs. The theological arguments from both sides is why I’m an agnostic.

I don’t know anything about God, Allah to Zeus, take your pick. I don’t know whether a deity exists or doesn’t exist. Furthermore such knowledge, to me, is not of any importance and can be a distraction from other, more important questions.

How does the world work? How do we live within it? What is knowledge? What is wisdom? How do we use the answers, limited though they will necessarily be, to lead good lives?

That’s what’s important.

If there is one thing I believe about a deity, it will be that they judge me on how I act, not on what I believe.

30 Locker  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 10:16:44am

re: #29 Romantic Heretic

Cool man.. you’re a Buddhist(ish).

31 DesertDenizen  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 10:33:59am

re: #21 steve_davis

Should we learn the basics of astrology, palmistry, or alchemy before we dismiss them as well? All I need to know is that there is no evidence to support any of them.

32 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, Apr 26, 2013 10:46:45am

re: #21 steve_davis

The basis of theology is that it’s about unproveable things that can’t be scientifically tested. As an actual narrative, it all kind of hangs together but it is really weird, in the way that has been pointed out, how archaic it is, and how the ‘transubstantiation’ thing is a little bizarre if you actually stop and think about it. And it’s basically just a restatement of the problem of evil and the problem of purpose— if god is awesome, why is there evil in the world? If our purpose is to live according to god’s law, why didn’t he just make us better at doing that? Not even, like, great, but just better, because dear god we suck at it— and often through little fault of our own. Etc.

So, nothing theological belongs in school, not even in philosophy class except as an adjunct to the philosophy it’s attached to. Theology itself can be interesting, but it is the definition of just kind of screwing around with a set of self-created axioms. humans can derive rich, beautiful meaning from these systems, but the meaning is coming from the humans, not the systems.


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