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1 lawhawk  Fri, May 10, 2013 7:59:29am

Via Slate:

Under Ohio law, murder victims can include an “unborn member of the species Homo sapiens, who is or was carried in the womb of another.”

While Castro has so far only been charged with seven felonies—three counts of rape; four counts of kidnapping—[County Prosecutor Timothy] McGinty said that he’ll look to add as many additional charges that can be supported by the evidence.

2 iossarian  Fri, May 10, 2013 8:15:06am

re: #1 lawhawk

Via Slate:

Thanks for the context. The second link in particular is very useful background. I suppose it’s true that the prosecutor is just doing his job here. On the other hand I also think it’s clear that these laws are written at least in part to undermine the legality of abortion procedures.

3 Political Atheist  Fri, May 10, 2013 8:19:27am

The whole thing is just inexplicably horrible. It surprises me there is not a more applicable statute. Hard to put this right and avoid perilous misunderstandings.IMHO In this kind of circumstance a unborn human that the mother would want deserves more legal attention than her kidney. Surely some kind of statute to cover a violent attack on a woman’s unborn can be crafted with getting into where women are choosing to have an abortion.

Now this might not seem to apply as these were rapes and mom may not have taken them to term or would have used the morning after pill. Thing is it was all against their will. We should be able to additionally punish for that on top of the rest of the various kinds of violence. (Maybe that’s the key-Like using a gun in a crime as a sentence enhancer)

I’m looking an inch further. Like a pregnant woman that wants to have that baby can still be attacked and if the unborn dies as a result, again I think the law can find a way to punish the convicted attacker for that lost pregnancy.

4 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 10, 2013 8:21:55am

I am just flabbergasted that there is a greater penalty for inducing an abortion than for GETTING A WOMAN PREGNANT AGAINST HER WILL BY RAPING HER REPEATEDLY.

5 iossarian  Fri, May 10, 2013 8:26:18am

re: #4 Vicious Babushka

I am just flabbergasted that there is a greater penalty for inducing an abortion than for GETTING A WOMAN PREGNANT AGAINST HER WILL BY RAPING HER REPEATEDLY.

That’s really the thing here. If you commit rape, or attack a pregnant woman violently enough that she suffers a miscarriage, I would just say that you punish those crimes enough that people are deterred* from committing them.

So if you really want to look at the root of this problem, maybe start with opposition to things like the Violence Against Women Act.

* Because that’s the point, right, deterrence?

6 iossarian  Fri, May 10, 2013 9:07:03am

re: #3 Political Atheist

Thanks for the comment but I can’t agree with the idea that an attack on a pregnant woman is made worse by the fact that she’s pregnant. It’s not that I can’t understand the justification for it, but the negative consequences, for me, vastly outweigh any possible benefits, most of which are in any case achievable by beefing up protection for women more generally, as discussed above.

7 shaggles  Fri, May 10, 2013 10:25:49am

Assuming Castro is found guilty he shouldn’t get the death penalty. He should be put in a cell with the biggest, meanest and most perverted deviant in the Ohio prison system for a min 10 years.

8 wrenchwench  Fri, May 10, 2013 10:58:19am

re: #3 Political Atheist

The whole thing is just inexplicably horrible. It surprises me there is not a more applicable statute. Hard to put this right and avoid perilous misunderstandings.IMHO In this kind of circumstance a unborn human that the mother would want deserves more legal attention than her kidney. Surely some kind of statute to cover a violent attack on a woman’s unborn can be crafted with getting into where women are choosing to have an abortion.

Now this might not seem to apply as these were rapes and mom may not have taken them to term or would have used the morning after pill. Thing is it was all against their will. We should be able to additionally punish for that on top of the rest of the various kinds of violence. (Maybe that’s the key-Like using a gun in a crime as a sentence enhancer)

I’m looking an inch further. Like a pregnant woman that wants to have that baby can still be attacked and if the unborn dies as a result, again I think the law can find a way to punish the convicted attacker for that lost pregnancy.

I don’t mind a law that punishes anyone who forces an abortion on a woman, whether by beating or by coercion to go to a doctor to do it.

But I would not ever say a forced abortion is more significant than a beating that caused the loss of a kidney. Losing a kidney causes permanent harm to a woman. Losing a fetus does not.

It is not easy to dislodge a pregnancy by beatings and starving. If it were, there would be more abortions done that way, by and to women who are denied access to proper abortions. The cruelty it takes to do that to a woman takes precedence in my mind over whether the victim lost a fetus or a kidney.

9 Joanne  Fri, May 10, 2013 11:31:06am

re: #2 iossarian

Thanks for the context. The second link in particular is very useful background. I suppose it’s true that the prosecutor is just doing his job here. On the other hand I also think it’s clear that these laws are written at least in part to undermine the legality of abortion procedures.

That’s exactly what this bill was written for. It’s not saying whether a woman wants it or not. It’s an attack on abortion rights, full stop.

If the desire is to kill the guilty, kidnapping and forcibly taking one’s freedom for an extended period should be sufficient. Since repeated torture and rape doesn’t really matter to legislators.

(And, yes, this infuriates me; both the attack on women’s rights and the lack of concern for this type of crime. It’s newsy and great for ratings…but rape itself? Legislator’s couldn’t really care less.)


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