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1 EiMitch  Wed, May 29, 2013 3:40:27pm

My question is: why was such a nice guy breaking the law in the first place?

Btw, if anyone wants to help the kid who was attacked, here’s the donation link: pledgie.com

2 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, May 29, 2013 5:03:11pm
If I had the power I’d make the fine one dollar for each unregistered gun.

Seriously?

3 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, May 29, 2013 5:45:03pm

Why not? The DC laws are failures that only hurt someone like Mr. Srigley but do not impact gun violence. If they would have actually followed the courts orders from a couple of years ago rather than pretend they’re above the SCOTUS’s ruling, this wouldn’t even be an issue.

As for the incident in question, lord knows I’ve always considered a dog to be the single most likely reason for me to unholster a firearm in need; certainly not a criminal.

4 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, May 29, 2013 5:49:07pm

re: #3 William Barnett-Lewis

Sure, why the fuck not? Let’s just let people own guns if they seem like good guys. Screw this ‘registering’ bullshit, that’s just the man keeping you down.

5 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:04:20pm

Yes, we know. We’re all hateful insane hillbillies for owning guns. Anything else new?

6 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:19:22pm

re: #5 William Barnett-Lewis

Yes, we know. We’re all hateful insane hillbillies for owning guns. Anything else new?

Except that’s nothing close to what I’m saying. What I”m saying is that not registering your guns is a bad thing, and we shouldn’t brush it off. This is already a very generous plea deal for the dude.

I have never, ever said anything close to saying that gun owners are hateful insane hillbillies. Nothing even remotely anywhere in the vicinity of that.

So what the fuck is this bullshit?

7 Locker  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:32:02pm

I don’t give a shit if he shot a rapist in the act. Unregistered gun charge should be prosecuted, period. How the hell do you even link the two? What if some guy is high on cocaine and that causes him to charge into a burning building and save a cat should we just make cocaine legal or ignore the charge?

He shot a dog attacking a kid. Good.
He has unregistered weapons which are normally kept to dispose of when you shoot another person. Bad.

8 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:34:45pm

re: #7 Locker


In this case, it’s probably that the process of registering them he considered too onerous, rather than actually wanting disposable weapons.

Which is, basically, deciding that since the law is too tough he won’t follow it.

9 Political Atheist  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:36:01pm

re: #2 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Yes with some provisions.
I am assuming he bought them legally, and moved to DC and did not register them as a technical violation of a city ordinance. Maybe (not at all sure) because he could not have had them before at all and was violating the unconstitutional ban. I assume no other legal errors are present, whatever the details.

Since a sincere media personality got off with a warning about a violation of the magazine ban why not $1 a gun? It’s more than a warning, still dings his record for future reference and reflects the consequences of his unregistered possession. No negative consequences, and a very positive one.

10 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:39:51pm

re: #9 Political Atheist

Yes with some provisions.
I am assuming he bought them legally, and moved to DC and did not register them as a technical violation of a city ordinance. Maybe (not at all sure) because he could not have had them before at all and was violating the unconstitutional ban. I assume no other legal errors are present, whatever the details.

Wow. So you really just don’t give a shit about the way that a city wants to regulate guns. A ‘technical violation’.

Since a sincere media personality got off with a warning about a violation of the magazine ban why not $1 a gun? It’s more than a warning, still dings his record for future reference and reflects the consequences of his unregistered possession. No negative consequences, and a very positive one.

Again. You just really don’t respect DC”s gun laws at all.

Rewarding vigilantism to that degree is dangerous. Come on, the message sent is that if you’ve got unregistered guns, just find a way to use them positively and you’ll get a free pass.

11 Political Atheist  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:39:58pm

re: #4 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Sure, why the fuck not? Let’s just let people own guns if they seem like good guys. Screw this ‘registering’ bullshit, that’s just the man keeping you down.

Why don’t we keep in mind the egregious record DC has on gun regulations. They were not punished for the violation of our rights, and it took a run at SCOTUS to prove it.

You know I support registration at transfers or sale. I can’t ignore the long term denial of an individual right by that city any more than I can ignore people buying guns illegally.

12 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:49:10pm

re: #11 Political Atheist

Why don’t we keep in mind the egregious record DC has on gun regulations. They were not punished for the violation of our rights, and it took a run at SCOTUS to prove it.

Sure, let’s keep it in mind. They still have the right to regulate guns.

You know I support registration at transfers or sale. I can’t ignore the long term denial of an individual right by that city any more than I can ignore people buying guns illegally

So really, your attitude when there’s what you perceive as overly restrictive gun laws in an area is to say that people should be able to violate those gun laws and get slapped on the wrist for it?

This is depressing. You guys are the ‘moderate’ gun owners too. So fucking depressing.

13 Political Atheist  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:49:14pm

re: #10 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Wow. So you really just don’t give a shit about the way that a city wants to regulate guns. A ‘technical violation’.

Again. You just really don’t respect DC”s gun laws at all.

Rewarding vigilantism to that degree is dangerous. Come on, the message sent is that if you’ve got unregistered guns, just find a way to use them positively and you’ll get a free pass.

You missed or misunderstood a lot of what I said somehow. Please read my lines about actually convicting & fining him for future reference as respect for the law. All I did was lower the fine.

And that action was not vigilantism. He was not hunting dogs or criminals. He had no posse, no aforethought. There is no evidence he did anything but step up as necessary and it went really well. It’s quite unfair of you to insult the man that way. The law allows us to step up when we can and life or limb is at risk.

The only diff between that guy and me is I would have registered, or not had them at all because of the old ban. If he is a vigilante, then I am too. Except really neither of us are.

BBL

My audio guy just got here with some files I must work on and get something published tonight, so I gotta go.

Please all of us keep with a calm and cool style on this again very divisive topic.

14 Political Atheist  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:50:39pm

re: #12 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Sure, let’s keep it in mind. They still have the right to regulate guns.

So really, your attitude when there’s what you perceive as overly restrictive gun laws in an area is to say that people should be able to violate those gun laws and get slapped on the wrist for it?

This is depressing. You guys are the ‘moderate’ gun owners too. So fucking depressing.

No, I said I proportion the fine to the consequences. WTH? Your depression is just unnecessary. Really gotta go.

15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, May 29, 2013 6:52:19pm

re: #13 Political Atheist

Please all of us keep with a calm and cool style on this again very divisive topic.

Yeah, like the way you stuck up for me when I got accused of thinking gun owners are ” all hateful insane hillbillies for owning guns.”

Fuck it. I’m out. Have fun celebrating the gun who didn’t register his guns.

16 Political Atheist  Wed, May 29, 2013 8:10:30pm

re: #15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Okay my work night is postponed.
So back in and-
Looks to me like you are just pissed off. Dude you are being unreasonable on this tonight. William got pissed too. And you were wrong to call this man a vigilante. William reacted harshly. No you don’t take it that far like William said. Looks like about the same mistake to me. So sure I’ll stand up for you on that. William was wrong to put it like that. Will you retract the vigilante thing? Because that was just as out of line.

17 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 29, 2013 8:34:45pm

re: #16 Political Atheist

Okay my work night is postponed.
So back in and-
Looks to me like you are just pissed off. Dude you are being unreasonable on this tonight. William got pissed too. And you were wrong to call this man a vigilante. William reacted harshly. No you don’t take it that far like William said. Looks like about the same mistake to me. So sure I’ll stand up for you on that. William was wrong to put it like that. Will you retract the vigilante thing? Because that was just as out of line.

Quite Concur.

Obdi, I respect your views very much, but you’re on the wrong side of this one. The District of Columbia has behaved egregiously when it comes to firearms, and the man in question did not use his handgun for any criminal purpose. To shoot a dangerous animal that is mauling a child is not ‘vigilantism’ is any place in this country. It is considered lawful defense of another person.

Obdi, you may not like handguns much, but this isn’t a case where you want to dig in. The behavior of the District in the wake of the Heller decision has been a good bit worse than that of Chicago following MacDonald. Chicago at least has accepted the the Supreme Court’s decision and stayed within it; DC seems to feel the decision was illegitimate and thus the District is entitled to ignore it when possible. You don’t want to side with a scofflaw city government over an honest a courageous citizen, Obdi, you really don’t.

18 Political Atheist  Wed, May 29, 2013 8:45:05pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

Well said. Thanks very much.

19 palomino  Wed, May 29, 2013 9:52:44pm

re: #14 Political Atheist

No, I said I proportion the fine to the consequences. WTH? Your depression is just unnecessary. Really gotta go.

That’s not how fines work. Try driving 120 on a rural stretch of hiway anywhere in the country…even when no other cars are within miles, the cop who pulls you over isn’t gonna write you a cheaper ticket because the consequences were less potentially severe than doing 120 in an urban area.

20 Locker  Wed, May 29, 2013 10:13:31pm

For the record I don’t think the guy was a vigilante. Using force to stop harm coming to another person is legal… gun, knife, chair, fist, bite and do whatever you can if you’ve any sack at all. If it’s a person they can submit and you should let them but a dog on a kid and listening to reason.

My only complaint is the unregistered weapon. All cars are registered, all guns should be registered. In fact I think every single gun should be fired and have ballistics kept on file and matched to the weapon. Serial numbers can be removed etc.

21 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 29, 2013 10:47:16pm

re: #20 Locker

For the record I don’t think the guy was a vigilante. Using force to stop harm coming to another person is legal… gun, knife, chair, fist, bite and do whatever you can if you’ve any sack at all. If it’s a person they can submit and you should let them but a dog on a kid and listening to reason.

My only complaint is the unregistered weapon. All cars are registered, all guns should be registered. In fact I think every single gun should be fired and have ballistics kept on file and matched to the weapon. Serial numbers can be removed etc.

If the registration process was reasonable, you’d have a case for that second part (though I still would not agree). But as I said, in this case the argument is undercut by the bad behavior of Washington DC’s city government.

And the guy didn’t get away scot-free. He got fined $1000. That’s not a huge punishment, I know, but in this case jail time would not have been in the interests of justice. This is one I’d suggest closing the books on, being glad that the child was saved and the man who saved him is now raising funds for his care.

22 Locker  Wed, May 29, 2013 10:51:34pm

I’m not saying he should have a huge punishment or anything but he should pay a fine AND forfeit the right to future gun ownership for X amount of X.

23 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 29, 2013 10:53:38pm

re: #22 Locker

I’m not saying he should have a huge punishment or anything but he should pay a fine AND forfeit the right to future gun ownership for X amount of X.

I respectfully disagree with the second.

24 BishopX  Thu, May 30, 2013 4:45:36am

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

I think Obdicut’s point was that the 1$/gun fine RWC suggested would be inappropriate.

Note that if this guy had been charged the penalty would be roughly in line with the fine he paid. Possession of an unregistered firearms in DC is punishable by at most 1 year in prison and a $1000 fine.

25 Political Atheist  Thu, May 30, 2013 6:12:20am

re: #22 Locker

I forfeit the right to future gun ownership for X amount of X.

That’s too much IMO. We don’t remove individual rights without better cause than a registration omission. Who loses their license for not registering a car?

re: #19 palomino

This man did nothing that reckless. And the cop only writes the ticket. Judges can and do make sentence adjustments. Just look at how they object to being hemmed in that way.

26 Political Atheist  Thu, May 30, 2013 6:14:10am

re: #15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Yeah, like the way you stuck up for me when I got accused of thinking gun owners are ” all hateful insane hillbillies for owning guns.”

Fuck it. I’m out. Have fun celebrating the gun who didn’t register his guns.

And you need to learn the actual meaning of vigilante and how it does not apply in this case.

27 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 30, 2013 7:41:55am

Yes my reaction was over the top, Obdicut, but the simple reality is that you have stated, more than once, your desire to ban all guns from all owners. So you’ll please pardon me for taking your presumption that saving a child by using a gun is somehow vigilantism which would imply there is never a legitimate use for a firearm.

When the District puts a legal regulation system in place that follows SCOTUS rulings, then yes, he should register his firearms. In the meantime, I really don’t know what would be appropriate because they’re as likely to jail you for owning one if you did try to register it as if you didn’t.

28 Political Atheist  Thu, May 30, 2013 10:17:49am

re: #27 William Barnett-Lewis

The problem comes in when “need” for self defense is minimized by the stats. Well I’ve been looking around and according to Mother Jones, over a third of a million people used gunes for self defense between 2007 & 2011. Over 67,000 instances annually on average.

I reject the concept we must have a need. we have a right, and all that is required is the desire. For self defense, hunting, collecting or just sport shooting or out plinking for the sheer fun of it. The whole ‘need” concept is a huge red herring. I’m working up a Page on exactly this point for later.


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