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32 comments

1 Flavia  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 3:22:11pm

I answered this elsewhere (celticdragon also posted it), but I will add: murder is only the solution if you are white & male. Can ya smell the sarcasm?? I am SO ANGRY!!!

2 Locker  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 3:24:24pm

Hey I beat CelticDragon by 3 minutes on my post. It’s not my fault that Charles has a thing for snow covered lizards. Then again Celt is cool so it’s all good in my book!

3 EiMitch  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 3:40:52pm
Under Texas law, an individual is authorized to use deadly force to “retrieve stolen property at night,”

F***ing Texas! Un-f***ing-believable!

And just “at night”? When its harder to get a witness to corroborate your story? When the cops/jury have to take your word for it? If broad daylight makes everything clear, then no you can’t shoot? But when everything is murky in the dark of night, fire away?

This law fails both basic logic and morality. But what else can one expect in a state where “pro-life” means wildly cheering in favor of capital punishment?

F*** Texas! And especially f*** that jury for reasons I can’t elaborate on without foaming at the mouth!

Btw, I’m a bit mad about this in case you couldn’t tell.

4 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 3:48:17pm

re: #2 Locker

Hey I beat CelticDragon by 3 minutes on my post. It’s not my fault that Charles has a thing for snow covered lizards. Then again Celt is cool so it’s all good in my book!

Backatcha. :)

I found some more on this story at The Daily Mail:

dailymail.co.uk

The guy actually followed her outside with an assault rifle and started shooting at the car. I guess that she had a clue that this guy was bad news and she decided to get the hell out…and he was not going to let her go.

This is not the last time we will see this guy on the docket with a dead woman in question.

5 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 3:50:07pm

Run the guy past Google Images to see an example of the lawyerly art of “Cleaning Up Real Good”.

6 Skip Intro  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:28:35pm

Texas is such a sewer that I don’t even want to fly over the state.

Hell, if I was making a west-east trip across the country these days, I’d drive up to Canada first and make the crossing there.

7 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:31:53pm

re: #4 celticdragon

This is not the last time we will see this guy on the docket with a dead woman in question.

You’re probably right, sadly.

I wonder how many there will be before a jury realizes, “This man is fucking insane and he’s cover his acts with the law. So, fry him.” Probably too many, and one is too many.

8 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:38:27pm

At voir dire the first question I would have asked is “did any of you vote for Ron Paul?”

9 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:39:27pm

re: #6 Skip Intro

Ever been to Texas? Last time I was there, the sign at the state line said “Proud Home of George W. Bush”.

She was no threat to him. Absolutely none. This isn’t the first time this law will be abused by psychotic creeps.

10 Skip Intro  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:44:34pm

re: #9 dragonath

This isn’t the first time this law will be abused by psychotic creeps.

The way the law is written, it sounds like you can pretty much pop anyone you choose if they steal from you. That bastard who swipes my newspaper periodically should be damn glad we live in California, that’s all I can say.

11 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:46:32pm

re: #10 Skip Intro

The way the law is written, it sounds like you can pretty much pop anyone you choose if they steal from you. That bastard who swipes my newspaper periodically should be damn glad we live in California, that’s all I can say.

Worse. The shooter doesn’t even have to prove theft. An allegation can suffice, if the jury goes for it.

12 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:54:33pm

Where did they find these jurors? I don’t think any amount of pressure from my peers could have made me vote to acquit this pyscho.

13 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:56:41pm

re: #12 SidewaysQuark

they found them in texas

14 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:56:52pm

Is it being asserting that the failure of an illegal transaction equals theft and therefore, legal retaliation shooting?

Escorting is, technically, paying for time: an argument could be made that shorted time equals theft. Not an argument I’d endorse—emanating from a law that’s a travesty—but sort of coherent.

But the minute the accused says “I was robbed because no sex” it’s a different ballgame. He misapprehends the contract w/re/ to services rendered, and then gets to shoot someone on the basis of his misunderstanding.

That’s fucking nuts.

15 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:58:56pm

Can’t wait to hear the right wing victim blaming on this one. “She knew the risks…” etc……

16 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:00:52pm

re: #14 The Ghost of a Flea

i don’t know the solicitation laws in this jurisdiction, but basically the shooter is alleging breach of contract for grounds of the shooting. if the “contract’ was for an illegal activity, that means the contract was void in the first place, so there can be no breach.

17 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:02:18pm

re: #16 SpaceJesus

i don’t know the solicitation laws in this jurisdiction, but basically the shooter is alleging breach of contract for grounds of the shooting. if the “contract’ was for an illegal activity, that means the contract was void in the first place, so there can be no breach.

Would you like to go to Texas as part of the touring company of “My Cousin Vinnie”?

18 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:04:25pm

re: #16 SpaceJesus

i don’t know the solicitation laws in this jurisdiction, but basically the shooter is alleging breach of contract for grounds of the shooting. if the “contract’ was for an illegal activity, that means the contract was void in the first place, so there can be no breach.

That’s what I can’t get my head around. The only coherent argument I could see would be breach of contract on the basis of something like a stated hourly rate.

19 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:04:32pm

What I don’t get, is how does his implied definition of “theft” apply when the thing he was planning to do was, in fact, illegal?

And assuming it was legal, a client doesn’t have the right to shoot someone because they didn’t finish mowing his grass, or something.

Except in Texas apparently.

20 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:07:40pm

re: #18 The Ghost of a Flea

I don’t see the facts here that make this any kind of larceny/burglary. This looks entirely like a contract to me, and she did not perform it the way he subjectively wanted it.

21 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:08:22pm

whatever. texas can eat a giant cowboy hat full of dicks

22 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:18:33pm

re: #20 SpaceJesus

I don’t see the facts here that make this any kind of larceny/burglary. This looks entirely like a contract to me, and she did not perform it the way he subjectively wanted it.

That’s my point. Like Stand Your Ground, the murderer gets to present his subjectivity as valid defense. And because their subjective narrative is given so much weight, the privilege of the defendant—white, male—ensures that the law bends to accommodate.

Which is all the more crazy is a situation where he’s demanding an illegal service and killed someone for not providing it.

Want to take odds on whether this could be used successfully by a junkie who rolled while trying to buy?

23 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:23:01pm

re: #22 The Ghost of a Flea

That’s my point. Like Stand Your Ground, the murderer gets to present his subjectivity as valid defense. And because their subjective narrative is given so much weight, the privilege of the defendant—white, male—ensures that the law bends to accommodate.

Which is all the more crazy is a situation where he’s demanding an illegal service and killed someone for not providing it.

Want to take odds on whether this could be used successfully by a junkie who rolled while trying to buy?

All of this is in a context where the prosecution carries the legal burden of proving its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Very ugly cases, where the bigotry of the jury is effectively able to define what is and is not murder.

24 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:25:44pm

re: #22 The Ghost of a Flea

Want to take odds on whether this could be used successfully by a junkie who rolled while trying to buy?

Heh, I was about to mention this. But it’s disturbing to think that someone has justification to kill for a reason that doesn’t even exist.

And money does NOT equate human life. I’m disgusted by some of the conservative responses I’ve seen to this on other sites. This law isn’t empowerment, it’s a sop to narrow minded vigilantism.

25 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:31:04pm

re: #23 EPR-radar

All of this is in a context where the prosecution carries the legal burden of proving its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Very ugly cases, where the bigotry of the jury is effectively able to define what is and is not murder.

See “Gay panic” and “trans panic” legal defense.

Murderers have literally walked out free after stabbing a trans woman to death.

26 hellosnackbar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:34:53pm

This piece of injustice is a classic retrograde attitude of primitive barbarity.
The right to bear arms (assault rifles) ,the right to kill someone who has not signed a commitment to shag!
Such events and decisions by a Texas judiciary are nauseating ,disgraceful and shameful.

27 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 5:40:22pm

re: #25 celticdragon

See “Gay panic” and “trans panic” legal defense.

Murderers have literally walked out free after stabbing a trans woman to death.

Apparently the American Bar Association is considering adopting a resolution that would end the use of the gay/trans panic defense.

us1.campaign-archive2.com

Better late than never I suppose, but come on. This should have been done decades ago.

28 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:20:43pm

Nice to know that you can get away with murder in Texas. Even if she did take 150 bucks from him. That doesn’t justify murder and this was murder.

29 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:00:16pm

Not to mention what he was trying to solicit was a criminal offense. Who knew that gun enabled homicide would cover so many sins?

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 11:42:09pm

re: #3 EiMitch

F***ing Texas! Un-f***ing-believable!

And just “at night”? When its harder to get a witness to corroborate your story? When the cops/jury have to take your word for it? If broad daylight makes everything clear, then no you can’t shoot? But when everything is murky in the dark of night, fire away?

This law fails both basic logic and morality. But what else can one expect in a state where “pro-life” means wildly cheering in favor of capital punishment?

F*** Texas! And especially f*** that jury for reasons I can’t elaborate on without foaming at the mouth!

Btw, I’m a bit mad about this in case you couldn’t tell.

Said this on the other thread, I’ll say it here: research might prove him wrong, but my husband’s thought is that the origin of the law was to allow ranchers to use deadly force against cattle rustlers and such—the originally envisioned scenario was livestock theft from an isolated homestead at night.

Which makes sense in context, and is here being used to legalize a flat-out murder.

31 Kruk  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:19:04am

re: #19 dragonath

What I don’t get, is how does his implied definition of “theft” apply when the thing he was planning to do was, in fact, illegal?

And assuming it was legal, a client doesn’t have the right to shoot someone because they didn’t finish mowing his grass, or something.

Except in Texas apparently.

Just think of all the things it can be used for if it does stand:

-bailing on a relationship after the other party has paid for a house/wedding/ring/Valentine’s Day gift/dinner and drinks
-Padding your expenses claim (gives whole new meanings to words like firing/termination/decreasing employee headcount)
-Not having the correct change for a pizza

32 EiMitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:21:53am

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

So you’re saying this law was intended to help that crazy rancher in South Park? “They was trespassing. I had to defend myself.”

No wait. That’s Colorado.


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