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18 comments

1 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:47:29am

Please Tweet if you feel this is important to you.

2 Sionainn  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:35:43am

I shared on FB. There’s still only two signatures…mine and yours.

3 Major Tom  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 3:34:59pm

Convince me.


The idea that there are too many people with clearance is not compelling on its own to warrant what would probably be a massive disruption to our intelligence industry.

What, in this case, makes a government employee more trust worthy than a private company’s employees?

I’m not a fan of privatization for the sake of it, and I worry that the profit motive makes companies ill suited to many services that are necessary, but I can’t think of anything off hand that makes public superior to private in this instance.

cost, maybe… but would they “retain the talent” as they always say?

4 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:29:14pm

Up this particular alley:

Lawmakers planning bill to limit contractor access to NSA secrets

thehill.com

5 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:30:10pm

re: #3 Major Tom

Convince me.

The idea that there are too many people with clearance is not compelling on its own to warrant what would probably be a massive disruption to our intelligence industry.

What, in this case, makes a government employee more trust worthy than a private company’s employees?

I’m not a fan of privatization for the sake of it, and I worry that the profit motive makes companies ill suited to many services that are necessary, but I can’t think of anything off hand that makes public superior to private in this instance.

cost, maybe… but would they “retain the talent” as they always say?

It’s not the number of people with clearances, its that they are private contractors whose allegiances are unknown. Intelligence work should be in-house with layers to watch for actions like this Snowden by people who are fully aligned with the US and our intelligence needs.

How many contractors? How many companies? What are each’s controls?

I might even go for one or two firms under exceptionally strict controls. Right now, it’s far too disparate.

6 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:37:49pm

re: #5 Joanne

It’s not the number of people with clearances, its that they are private contractors whose allegiances are unknown. Intelligence work should be in-house with layers to watch for actions like this Snowden by people who are fully aligned with the US and our intelligence needs.

How many contractors? How many companies? What are each’s controls?

I might even go for one or two firms under exceptionally strict controls. Right now, it’s far too disparate.

I think it makes sense for the Feds to directly handle the investigations for security clearances etc. If the same standards for getting cleared, physical security etc. are applied to contractors and to government agencies equally, there shouldn’t be a problem, to first order.

One thing I’ve seen in the reporting that, if true, I think should be changed, is that apparently the clearance investigations can be done by private outfits.

7 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:43:14pm

Looking at the worker bees, Fed and contract, misses the core problem. The leadership of the NSA and various contractors is interchangeable and often interchanges. Check the persons leading agencies and BAH over the last few presidencies.

There is a good bit of military sociology available on the impact of young-retiring flag officers on American business in general.

8 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:26:08pm

re: #7 Decatur Deb

Looking at the worker bees, Fed and contract, misses the core problem. The leadership of the NSA and various contractors is interchangeable and often interchanges. Check the persons leading agencies and BAH over the last few presidencies.

There is a good bit of military sociology available on the impact of young-retiring flag officers on American business in general.

And with that leadership at BAH…and they’re still that lax? That just reinforces what I’m saying about contracting intelligence. If Mike McConnell can’t ensure fucking national secrets, there should not be private firms doing intelligence work.

9 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:27:06pm

re: #6 EPR-radar

Way too much is being done by private firms. All of the profit and none of the security.

10 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:29:48pm

re: #8 Joanne

re: #9 Joanne

As a 30-year Fed, I might naturally agree with you, but the fact is that leadership, personnel selection, and tough/flexible regulation are really more important than uniform vs casual Fridays. Above all, the incentivization scheme must be rational.

11 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:39:03pm

re: #10 Decatur Deb

re: #9 Joanne

As a 30-year Fed, I might naturally agree with you, but the fact is that leadership, personnel selection, and tough/flexible regulation are really more important than uniform vs casual Fridays. Above all, the incentivization scheme must be rational.

I appreciate what you’re saying. But the Snowden affair, in my mind, shows such lax controls surrounding our national secrets and thus our national security, that privatization should be wound down as federal employees are ramped up. Private companies should at a bare minimum have to provide evidence of controls in place to ensure secrets and, all remaining private contractor employees refer tidying their clearances annually - at their own expenses.

I’m against privatizing intelligence completely. But if it’s a MUST HAVE for reasons I’m not seeing, more controls need to be in place.

12 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:40:58pm

Freaking iPhone. Recertifying autocorrected to Refer tiding. Go figure.

13 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:44:21pm

re: #11 Joanne

I appreciate what you’re saying. But the Snowden affair, in my mind, shows such lax controls surrounding our national secrets and thus our national security, that privatization should be wound down as federal employees are ramped up. Private companies should at a bare minimum have to provide evidence of controls in place to ensure secrets and, all remaining private contractor employees refer tidying their clearances annually - at their own expenses.

I’m against privatizing intelligence completely. But if it’s a MUST HAVE for reasons I’m not seeing, more controls need to be in place.

I think this takes a single data point (Snowden) and takes it too far (no contractors with clearances). There have been a lot of contractors over a span of decades who have been very good at keeping secrets.

There are lessons to be learned from the Snowden situation, of course, such as making sure that people, including sysadmins, are cleared for the data they can access. Nuking private contracting for intel from orbit is an overreaction, IMO.

E.g., would the Federal government need to hire the engineers who design/build/launch spy satellites and their payloads?

14 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:50:37pm

re: #11 Joanne

I appreciate what you’re saying. But the Snowden affair, in my mind, shows such lax controls surrounding our national secrets and thus our national security, that privatization should be wound down as federal employees are ramped up. Private companies should at a bare minimum have to provide evidence of controls in place to ensure secrets and, all remaining private contractor employees refer tidying their clearances annually - at their own expenses.

I’m against privatizing intelligence completely. But if it’s a MUST HAVE for reasons I’m not seeing, more controls need to be in place.

Both the military and contractor intel communities need a tremendous kick in the ass. Most of our damage has come from in-house failures, often low-level like PVT Manning and LCPL Roundtree. That gets back to the difficulty of assuring accountability in a revolving-door leadership.

15 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:09:22pm

re: #13 EPR-radar

I simply don’t get why this has to be monetized. We’re paying contractors a boatload of money for what? Failure. BAH is in a multitude of countries, and the one that provides the profits is where their allegiances will lie. It makes no sense to me.

Yes, Snowden is one case. And I’m sure there are many good people. I’d just rather see them work for US.

16 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:11:18pm

re: #14 Decatur Deb

Both the military and contractor intel communities need a tremendous kick in the ass. Most of our damage has come from in-house failures, often low-level like PVT Manning and LCPL Roundtree. That gets back to the difficulty of assuring accountability in a revolving-door leadership.

Lets just hope that kick in the ass happens. Bullshit like this makes us look weak and stupid.

17 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 15, 2013 7:50:34am

re: #9 Joanne

Way too much is being done by private firms. All of the profit and none of the security.

Booze Allen Hamilton actually does a very good job in its work. I’ve sold seats for events they’ve attended and spoken at and I can tell yout hey are very well regarded.

But flakes like Snowden happen, as we saw with Bradley Manning (who as a soldier was a government employee). Anti-flake screening needs to be stepped up all the way around.

18 EiMitch  Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:03:50pm

I signed because I kinda felt sorry for how few signatures its gotten.

A ridiculous reason to sign? It would’ve been if I had a dog in this race. Why not?

First of all, leaks like Snowden are inevitable from a logistical standpoint. Just keeping a surveillance system like this barely chugging along requires too many people to have access. Maybe there are ways to make that happen less often, but its going to happen. This is the Achilles heel of “big brother.”

Second, we don’t know what the NSA is doing. Yes, Greenwald made baseless, sensationalist claims. Each sensationalist claim made by one member of the media or another lately had been debunked by pointing out the “source” was some politician who attended a briefing or something. Even if I assume politicians don’t lie, **snicker** that still means its at best a glorified layman’s secondhand account.

Third, assuming for the sake of argument that the NSA isn’t overstepping its bounds at all, what about the next guy in charge? How are we supposed to trust that the power of such a secretive surveillance system is not being abused nor ever will be?

And fourth, its been over a decade since the terrorist attacks that scared us into accepting such intrusive surveillance. There will always be more terrorism. As a species, we’re just too violent and too frequently fanatical. (otherwise pro-sports would be out of business) Are we to simply accept these old “emergency” powers as permanent? Or will we remember who we’re supposed to be as a nation and let go of the illusion of control? We simply can’t have it both ways.


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