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1 EiMitch  Thu, Jun 20, 2013 5:44:59am

Really? The only acceptable philosophical reason for pacifism is “god said so”? That is bigoted, narrow-minded bulls***!

Yet, christians are the ones being “persecuted” according republicans and faux news.

2 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 20, 2013 11:01:37am

War on Christians. Oh wait this lady’s an Atheist. Seriously what the fuck.

3 jogiff  Thu, Jun 20, 2013 1:07:01pm
…my lifelong spiritual/religious beliefs impose on me a duty of conscience not to contribute to warfare by taking up arms…

[italicization added for emphasis]

If she considers her pacifism to be “spiritual/religious” then I don’t think she can call herself an atheist.

4 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 20, 2013 1:25:42pm

re: #3 jogiff

Sure she can. She can have a spiritual belief in the sacredness of human life without believing in god.

5 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jun 20, 2013 4:06:29pm

Sounds like a Supreme Court case in the making.

6 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 20, 2013 4:28:04pm

IIRC, a CO’s church need not be pacifist, but he must point to an organized system of belief even if he arrived at pacifism independently of church doctrine. (Didn’t know females needed to offer to take up arms, since they are not under the Selective Service Act.)

From Wiki:

A 1971 United States Supreme Court decision, Gillette v. United States, broadened U.S. rules beyond religious belief but denied the inclusion of objections to specific wars as grounds for conscientious objection.[46]

Currently, the U.S. Selective Service System states, “Beliefs which qualify a registrant for conscientious objector status may be religious in nature, but don’t have to be. Beliefs may be moral or ethical; however, a man’s reasons for not wanting to participate in a war must not be based on politics, expediency, or self-interest. In general, the man’s lifestyle prior to making his claim must reflect his current claims.”[47] Current Selective Service law requires and allows only registration. It does not allow for making claims of CO. The SS has stopped returning the registrants cards that hand write it on but they are simply registered in the system without note. In the US, this applies to primary claims, that is, those filed on initial SSS registration. On the other hand, those who apply after either having registered without filing, and/or having attempted or effected a deferral, are specifically required to demonstrate a discrete and documented change in belief, including a precipitant, that converted a non-CO to a CO. The male reference is due to the current “male only” basis for conscription in the United States.

In the United States, there are two main criteria for classification as a conscientious objector. First, the objector must be opposed to war in any form, Gillette v. United States, 401 U.S. 437. Second, the objection must be sincere, Witmer v. United States, 348 U.S. 375. That he must show that this opposition is based upon religious training and belief was no longer a criterion after cases broadened it to include non-religious moral belief, United States v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163 andWelsh v. United States, 398 U.S. 333. COs willing to perform non-combatant military functions are classed 1-A-O by the U.S.; those unwilling to serve at all are 1-O.

7 EiMitch  Thu, Jun 20, 2013 5:48:34pm

re: #6 Decatur Deb

In the United States, there are two main criteria for classification as a conscientious objector. First, the objector must be opposed to war in any form, Gillette v. United States, 401 U.S. 437. Second, the objection must be sincere, Witmer v. United States, 348 U.S. 375. That he must show that this opposition is based upon religious training and belief was no longer a criterion after cases broadened it to include non-religious moral belief, United States v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163 andWelsh v. United States, 398 U.S. 333. COs willing to perform non-combatant military functions are classed 1-A-O by the U.S.; those unwilling to serve at all are 1-O.

(emphasis added)

That just further proves the insistence on belonging to a religious organization is bs. Doughty has the support of AHA. But that isn’t good enough for some bible pounding bigot who don’t know the very laws he/she is employed to enforce. Doughty should file a complaint, sue, and whatever else she needs to do.

8 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 20, 2013 5:50:13pm

re: #7 EiMitch

(emphasis added)

That just further proves the insistence on belonging to a religious organization is bs. Doughty has the support of AHA. But that isn’t good enough for some bible pounding bigot who don’t know the very laws he/she is employed to enforce. Doughty should file a complaint, sue, and whatever else she needs to do.

Yup, though I might be conflating the legal ideas behind actual service and citizenship requirements.


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