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1 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 4, 2013 4:49:13pm

Let’s go through this:

- The collection of Metadata for (almost) all phone calls within the US is a fact. And that the idea that it is only Metadata so that it is anonymous and limits what can be deduced about you is clearly false.

However this is not news. Metadata for all phone calls in the US is archived by the carriers, and it always has been. It’s available to law enforcement with a warrant, and it pretty much always has been. With certified authorization from the customer (like in a child abduction,) this data can even be given to law enforcement without a warrant. The metadata collection is no bombshell. The closest Glenn has to a bombshell is that the metadata from some internet transactions is now apparently archived and available. So far that’s the only new & slightly shocking thing that’s come out to me.

Nowhere do I see NSA with direct access to data at the carriers in any of this. Like requests from other law enforcement, it takes a warrant or request, is scrutinized heavily, & most importantly for those who envision a massive surveillance collection that’s automatic, instead it takes individual effort to set up each time.

2 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 4, 2013 5:13:06pm

How many international fiber optic cables do you see landing in San Francisco?

submarinecablemap.com

3 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 5, 2013 10:24:20am

Sorry, but Greenwald’s biggest, most shocking bombshell news, that the NSA had “direct access” to the servers of all the major Internet companies, turned out to be completely false. That was the most damaging claim he’s made, by far, and it simply was not true. Not even arguably true. And he still has not retracted his false claims.

Almost everything else he’s reported has long been public knowledge from other sources, and the few pieces of new information he’s uncovered have not been very shocking.

4 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 5, 2013 10:56:26am

It’s perfectly clear to me that Glenn Greenwald has been playing both far right and far left with these fear-mongering, exaggerated stories, stirring up animus against President Obama. His own statements make this even clearer — the guy has a serious vendetta against Obama, and against the US.

Yes, let’s discuss FISA and NSA surveillance. But it benefits NOBODY to spread fear and hyperbole, except Greenwald and his fanatical libertarian followers.

5 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 5, 2013 1:49:49pm

I am not so sure that it isn’t tue that the NSA doesn’t have direct access to the servers. There is a slide that has been authenticated the claims the NSA has “real time” access. Randal Gross said in another post that there is technology available that doesn’t require direct access in order for the slide’s claims to be true. But if they do not have direct access and still achieve the claimed real time capabilities it seems to indicate something even worse.

And, the only reason why we would doubt that the NSA doesn’t have direct access is the statements of the leaders of the tech companies and with the provable mistatements, if not direct lies, from even Obama himself I don’t think that you can a credible argument that those are truthful statements.

So, it the direct access is the last claim to be not yet verified I think that is pretty thin gruel to count on and there are mutliple statements from sources that say that there is more to come. See the LGF article from Congressman Sanchez, the last I looked, she isn’t a Libertarian.

And lastl, I think that argueing that this isn’t a MAJOR issue just because one claim is true while all the others have been found to be true is like saying a murder wasn’t so bad because the murder killed the victum quickly rather then tortured them to death.

6 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 5, 2013 2:11:18pm

Leaked NSA Slide # 8 ” … real time access … ” published by WaPo

Look at D - there are 4 possibilites.

1) The NSA was just claiming something that they cannot do.
2) The slide was fabricated
3) It is a fact
4) As Randal stated, it is possible to do this without direct access to servers. If so, it seems to me that the NSA would have to have access to all requests coming into those servers, use the technology (or something like it) Randal knows about, to get those real time notifications which is even worse.

Then there is what is coming. Here is Congresswoman Sanchez

“What we learned in there,” Sanchez said, “is significantly more than what is out in the media today.”
littlegreenfootballs.com

7 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 5, 2013 2:24:30pm

I am trying to find the reference now but I seem to have heard / remember that all the revolations so far, have come from 8 of 32 slides and about a dozen or so pages of the FISA Warrants etc. We can assume those contained the most exlosive facts but I wouldn’t assume that the remaining docs are innoquous.

8 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 5, 2013 2:36:23pm

From a story dated june 30th in the WaPo, hard news not opinion

“News accounts of the NSA programs have also contained inaccuracies, in some cases because of the source materials. Classified NSA slides that were published by The Post indicated that the NSA was able to tap directly into the servers of Google, Microsoft, Apple and other technology companies. The companies denied that they allowed direct access to their equipment, although they did not dispute that they cooperated with the NSA.”

washingtonpost.com

This is also a quote that I provided in an LGF post

littlegreenfootballs.com

It seems like the WaPo is defending Greenwald’s claim regarding direct access as caused by “source materials”.

If my post at LGF is too “edited” to be crediible enough to move you I would read the entire WaPo article. It gently and decretely begins to attack Obama’s credibility on this issue. He only has a few more chances then everyone, not just libertarian nut cases, will not trust what he says. Just like Bush.


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