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1 cinesimon  Tue, Jul 30, 2013 3:13:34pm

Fuck off with your “Islamist viewpoint”.
He’s an authoritarian. And not because of Islam, but because of power. He happens tO be a Muslim, and of course just like the republicans do, he uses it to sway the electorate. But Islam clearly not the motivation for what he is doing. He’s not imposing his will so that Islamist policies can be put in place - that may be the the occasional by-product, but in reality, he is still very much a secular ruler.
Was Franco an Islamist? Was Cheney? Was Tito? Was Mubarak? Pinochet?
The tens of dozens of dictators that America supported (and even helped to power via aiding coups) throughout Sth America, Africa and Asia?
No. He has one important thing in common with them: an attraction to self enrichment, and for political power. He has said in the past something to the effect of ‘Democracy is a train. When we get to where we want to go, we’ll get off’. This was not said in some kind of cryptic Islamic context.

This need to blame Islam is a sickness that allows so much of what is wrong with modern politics off the hook. Forget lust for money and power - it’s the BOGABOGABOGA!

I’m sure I can be refuted with totally not at all cherry-picked pieces of the puzzle…

2 sliv_the_eli  Tue, Jul 30, 2013 4:18:59pm

re: #1 cinesimon

Awfully strong words. How closely do you follow developments in Turkey? For how long have you done so? Because if you think that Erdogan and the political party from which he hails do not pursue, and have not pursued, an Islamist policy, you are sorely mistaken. The protests that occurred throughout Turkey were not merely a response to Erdogan’s authoritarian personality or governing style, but were, for many, a protest against the increasing imposition of Islamist policies by an avowedly Islamist political party. As for what the AKP’s and Erdogan’s views are, you don’t need to take my word for it; read what Turks are, and have been saying on the subject.

As for your accusation that my post “blame[s] Islam”, I do nothing of the sort. My post said nothing about “Islam”, bur, rather, referred only to the “Islamist” viewpiont of Erdogan and the AKP. If you do not believe they are Islamists, so be it, but many Turks, including many who are much more knowledgeable — and have much greater personal experience — than you or I with respect to the subject would disagree.

3 garzooma  Tue, Jul 30, 2013 6:47:20pm

It might energize and motivate those in Turkey who seek true democracy if there weren’t unscrupulous individuals in the US who collaborate with Turkish government efforts to undermine free speech in this country. Back in 2006, Donald Quataert, the Chairman of the Board of the Georgetown-based, Turkish government-funded Institute for Turkish Studies had written an academic piece mentioning the Armenian Genocide. The Turkish Ambassador told him that if he didn’t retract what he wrote, the government was going to terminate funding, just like it’s now doing to student protesters. Instead, Quataert resigned. He later went public with this, causing a number of other Board members to resign, including a few Turks who can be considered precursors to the current protesters.

Numerous scholars, including the Middle East Studies Association, called on the money for the Institute be put in an irrevocable trust to remove Turkey’s ability to blackmail scholars. Turkey ignored them and replaced the protesting Board members with more reliable puppets. Georgetown promised to investigate, but decided that Turkey blackmailing scholars wasn’t such a big deal. Erdogan’s open arrogance on American soil didn’t stop American collaborators, so I don’t know if things will be better this time around.

4 Carlos Danger  Tue, Jul 30, 2013 8:59:43pm

re: #1 cinesimon

Erdogan is about as secular as a Tea Party Republican. Check out the massive antagonization of the secularist Alevi sect and the alcohol prohibition laws in place- which ban alcohol within 100 meters of any ill-defined, ad-hoc mosque.

5 theye1  Wed, Jul 31, 2013 2:26:26am

Turkey in the 90’s is way worse than it is now, not that it’s any excuse, but Turkey didn’t go from functioning democracy to dictatorship. It went from quasi-dictatorship to flawed democracy.
re:
#4 Carlos Danger

Antagonizing is the governmental pastime of most Turkish Government, Attaturk himself massacred them.


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