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1 mr.JA  Fri, Aug 9, 2013 4:49:21am

So the US Government can ask something from a company, and at the same time demand that this company says nothing about it? That doesn’t seem very ‘land of the free and home of the brave’ to me.
This seems like a case ripe for the Supreme Court, this is beyond any belief.

Also, since the US cannot do a lot against foreign encryption services, this is just forcing US business down.
I can fully understand that the NSA wants all of this, but this goes a little far.
Next October term there’s a SC challenge bound to reach the SC and I really hope they put some order in this mess. It is really bad that a secret court is making precedent of all things 4th amendment related, but no-one knows about it.

2 eightyfiv  Fri, Aug 9, 2013 9:59:31am

What’s up with the down-dings, huh? Is this bad or frivolous reporting?

3 Randall Gross  Fri, Aug 9, 2013 10:06:51am

It’s because heywood finds it necessary to snark at lgf with every post rather than stick to the facts.

4 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 9, 2013 10:17:54am

re: #1 mr.JA

The gag orders have been struck down every time they’ve gone into court. The final decision is awaiting the Supreme Court.

5 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 9, 2013 10:49:07am

re: #2 eightyfiv

What’s up with the down-dings, huh? Is this bad or frivolous reporting?

Because the cheap shots at LGF are getting very very old.

6 Political Atheist  Fri, Aug 9, 2013 6:09:13pm

Heywood ya dial it down a bit?

7 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 9, 2013 8:01:56pm

re: #6 Political Atheist

Heywood ya dial it down a bit?

He won’t. He only has one setting on this issue and that setting is “High volume DERP”.

8 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 10, 2013 1:36:03am

The fact that you have to insert attacks against us does not bode well for the ‘discussion’ you GG/Snowden supporters claim to want.

9 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 10, 2013 8:39:17am

So I’m supposed to be all full of outrage because the government is subpoenaing Snowden’s email?

Sorry, I’m not feelin’ it. Welcome to the real world, folks, where if you commit serious crimes and then flee to a hostile foreign country, the US government will investigate you. The horror!

10 Heywood Jabloeme  Sat, Aug 10, 2013 10:56:56am

These email systems weren’t shut down because they were going after Snowden’s emails they were shut down because they were served subpoenas for all email accounts - general access just like the NSA has to most other email accounts in the world.

The “snarkiness” is due to the fact that the original position held by LGF and many of the posers here, that the email spying by the NSA was limited, has fallen apart and I like to post these just so that that denial is displayed.

Then as far as me “sticking to the facts” this article was posted with no edits. Other articles have went farther with the fact and I know of nothing that contradicts any of them.

You guys are, in this case, the equivalent of the Wing Nut Climate and Science deniers.

11 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 10, 2013 11:08:07am

re: #10 Heywood Jabloeme

These email systems weren’t shut down because they were going after Snowden’s emails they were shut down because they were served subpoenas for all email accounts

You’re simply making this up out of thin air. It’s not in the article you posted. Go ahead and fling some more insults now.

12 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 10, 2013 11:10:28am

re: #10 Heywood Jabloeme

If your cause is so righteous, why do you have to lie about stuff like this?

13 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Aug 10, 2013 11:19:15am
14 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 10, 2013 11:42:00am

re: #10 Heywood Jabloeme

The snark is uncalled for because the government has official methods of requesting information sought. Warrants and subpoenas. They’ve used both in going after terrorists and criminals. Both are legitimate means in criminal justice investigations as well as via FISA in national security cases.

So far, we’re still waiting to see evidence from Greenwald that warrants or subpoenas weren’t used in cases where US citizens were surveilled in the US.

Thus far, we’ve still seen only Greenwald intimate that there’s the possibility that this could happen.

The Guardian’s articles are replete with the “requires warrants on US citizens” caveat to all the reporting - in other words, Greenwald repeatedly hypes the specter of an omniscient government spying on its citizens, except for the tiny detail that it has to go seek warrants and subpoenas for the information source.

And here? The email companies are served warrants and I’m supposed to be concerned about this? That’s what law enforcement does all the time when it has suspicion of wrongdoing - whether in the real world or online (or where they cross over). Snowden’s emails would be sought because he’s being investigated for crimes alleged and admitted to - the theft of classified information and its release to the public. He is an unauthorized person to make that information public. There are set procedures for making information available to the public - declassification.

Had these companies been shut down because they were engaging in the spread of child porn, there’d be nary a peep, but these crimes alleged are pretty damned serious.

The discussion of whether too much information is held in classified level status is not the one we’re having though, we’re discussing that under the current rules, Snowden made numerous violations, and the government has the right and obligation to go after him and who he’s talked with/to in how that happened - who helped, were accomplices, etc.

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