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1 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 7:51:37am

Damn Yoonyans. Oh wait…

2 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 8:17:25am

What was Snowden making per hour for the NSA?

3 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 8:21:32am

re: #2 Sol Berdinowitz

What was Snowden making per hour for the NSA?

Snowden was making $62/hr, but we don’t know how much Booz Allen was billing the NSA for Snowden’s services.

I see the discrepancy here. $275/hr is what Conway Mackenzie (the consulting firm) was billing the city, not what the kid actually received in his paycheck.

4 alinuxguru  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 9:15:08am

As someone who bills clients at those rates, I take umbrage to the “drooling shill” characterization. In fact, that is spot on. I bill at those rates, then I go away. I am there to do a job fast and efficiently. Yes, you can hire someone, pay them a salary and benefits and they may get the job done — but generally with more time required and not performed at the same level of quality.

soooooo….. I down-dinged you.

5 alinuxguru  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 9:24:03am

re: #2 Sol Berdinowitz

What was Snowden making per hour for the NSA?

What he said, or what he actually made? Because, he said he made Eleventeen million dollars.

6 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 9:39:26am

re: #5 alinuxguru

What he said, or what he actually made? Because, he said he made Eleventeen million dollars.

What he actually made, he said he was making $100/hr.

7 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 9:40:27am

re: #4 alinuxguru

As someone who bills clients at those rates, I take umbrage to the “drooling shill” characterization. In fact, that is spot on. I bill at those rates, then I go away. I am there to do a job fast and efficiently. Yes, you can hire someone, pay them a salary and benefits and they may get the job done — but generally with more time required and not performed at the same level of quality.

soooooo….. I down-dinged you.

You think the $275/hr is appropriate for an entry-level of little experience?

8 Souliren  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 9:55:00am

$275 an hour is not unreasonable for a professional on a contract job even if they are young and inexperienced. (But competent)

Our company bills $250 per hour for IT folks, some of whom are recent graduates with a salary near $50,000

We bill $150 per hour for junior technicians.

our customers pay those rates because they are in line with what our competitors charge. Significantly less and we would be out of business.

I’m not surprised the union guys think that rate is unreasonable. They think pay should be based on seniority, not competence.

It is not like renting our a farm worker for cost plus $2 per hour. There is overhead involved professionals doing work for clients.

9 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 10:03:59am

re: #8 Souliren

We bill $150 per hour for junior technicians.

our customers pay those rates because they are in line with what our competitors charge. Significantly less and we would be out of business.

This is the same kind of logic that is used to justify CEO’s making 8 figures. Also, if you charged your customers less, you would get more contracts.

I’m not surprised the union guys think that rate is unreasonable. They think pay should be based on seniority, not competence.

But that still does not explain why you think an entry-level graduate with little to no experience is MOAR COMPETENT than a skilled professional with 20 years of experience who belongs to a union.

10 Souliren  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 10:42:18am

If we charged our customers significantly less we would not be in business at all. The cost per hour for the overhead and infrastructure to support a skilled contract worker is a major part of the cost. You can’t make money selling below cost no matter what your volume.

Utilization has to be considered. If someone wanted one of our people for three months straight we could deal at a much lower rate.

I think an entry level graduate with degree in finance is more competent at financial analysis then a skilled plumber with 20 years experience.

11 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 11:00:21am

re: #10 Souliren

If we charged our customers significantly less we would not be in business at all. The cost per hour for the overhead and infrastructure to support a skilled contract worker is a major part of the cost. You can’t make money selling below cost no matter what your volume.

Utilization has to be considered. If someone wanted one of our people for three months straight we could deal at a much lower rate.

I think an entry level graduate with degree in finance is more competent at financial analysis then a skilled plumber with 20 years experience.

How much should an IT professional with 20 years of experience be making?

12 KingKenrod  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 11:02:46am

re: #9 Vicious Babushka

Also, if you charged your customers less, you would get more contracts.

Not necessarily, you would also be viewed as someone who might be doing substandard work. At this level (a large bankruptcy) the quality of work is more important than the rate. There’s little indication in the story that $275/hr is unusual, and I can tell you from my own experience consulting in engineering it’s not unusual at all for professional services, even junior level.

13 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 11:04:04am

re: #12 KingKenrod

Not necessarily, you would also be viewed as someone who might be doing substandard work. At this level (a large bankruptcy) the quality of work is more important than the rate. There’s little indication in the story that $275/hr is unusual, and I can tell you from my own experience consulting in engineering it’s not unusual at all for professional services, even junior level.

How come experienced IT professionals in my field make $35-$45/hr? Where is all the rest of that money going?

14 Political Atheist  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 11:17:30am

re: #4 alinuxguru

As someone who bills clients at those rates, I take umbrage to the “drooling shill” characterization. In fact, that is spot on. I bill at those rates, then I go away. I am there to do a job fast and efficiently. Yes, you can hire someone, pay them a salary and benefits and they may get the job done — but generally with more time required and not performed at the same level of quality.

soooooo….. I down-dinged you.

When you were “entry level” how much did you bill? To me that’s the important distinction.

15 Souliren  Wed, Aug 14, 2013 11:59:01am

Experienced IT professionals who make $35-45 per hour make that every hour of a 40 hour week.

A utilization rate of 60% would not be uncommon and 80% is usually considered fully utilized. So billed hours for a fella getting paid for 40 hours may be less than 30 depending on your industry.

If a customer wanted one of our people full time - 40 hours a week for a month we might quote them 90 or sometimes less depending on the effort required and what resources they would need from us. Longer term they would get a price closer to what we pay the tech.

In addition to the salary there are overhead costs for administration, billing, bad debts, insurance, building costs, coffee in the lunch room, vehicle expenses, etc.

This is an old discussion that often comes up when discussing our fee with a customer.

If you looked at any industry which provides skilled professionals at an hourly rate you would see similar numbers. If you were able to look at their financial statements you would see that the prices are reasonable


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