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1 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 7:34:42pm

It’s so refreshing to read this. And I think its a first, tiny step into the work that needs to be done. Hard stuff.

2 majii  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 8:23:03pm

This is a very powerful article. It touches on many of the differences between being born white and bring born a Person of Color in this society. What many whites don’t realize is that POC have a long list of “dos” and “don’ts” that they don’t have to contend with. Dr. McIntosh listed many of them in this article. I remember growing up knowing that if one is black in America, there are certain things one can’t do. Most Americans would assume that if you’re shopping, you have a right to be in that store as much as any other American. Not so with blacks and other POC. Although I had a successful career of over 30 years in education, I’ve been followed around by security guards in certain stores. It never occurred to them that my race didn’t determine whether I could pay for anything in the store I purchased. Where these security guards were concerned ( and many of the clerks), my problem was their prejudice based on stereotypes of Black Americans. If any American thinks racism and white privilege isn’t still alive and kicking in America, all they have to do is a little experiment in which they change their physical appearance and live as a POC for a couple of weeks. Then, they’ll understand the “societal chains” that still prevent POC from doing things that they consider average and normal.

3 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 9:50:30pm
4 gwangung  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 11:20:20pm

re: #3 GatorsEatsTaters

Please go to the sections of the South where huge chunks of the population are white and below the poverty line and are barely able to afford the trailer they live in and try lecturing them about their “white privilege”

Oh, they know it quite well. They know, bad as their lot is, they aren’t as bad off as one of Those People.

Don’t tell me you’re ignorant of the hierarchy in those places?

5 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:03:21am

re: #3 GatorsEatsTaters

Okay. It’ll be a very uncomfortable position, but the truth of it is that a white person in those circumstances still has more privilege than a black person in those circumstances.

6 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:15:18am
7 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:25:45am

re: #6 GatorsEatsTaters

There is no question there are still racists down south, no one will argue with that. But about 3-4 years ago I talked with a friend who’s family is from Alabama. She was telling me how the problem there is not limited to any group. She says that blacks and whites and democrats and republicans are all equally racist and suspicious of each other down there.

Your anecdote is noted, but it’s an anecdote. It’s demonstrably true that white privilege exists. A white woman in that circumstance with the exact same experience and education is much more likely to be hired for a job than a black woman is. A black woman would, in identical cases, get a longer prison sentence, the testimony of a black witness would be less likely to be believed.

Do you not know these things?

8 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:49:27am
9 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:16:40am

re: #8 GatorsEatsTaters


No, we can ascertain a lot more than that— like the fact, as I said, that white women are hired preferentially over black women.

Are you disputing this?

10 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:39:40am
11 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:57:33am

re: #10 GatorsEatsTaters

And how are you going to prove this without reading the minds of the people doing the hiring?

Well, it’s pretty simple. You can compare the resumes of people pretty trivially, but even beyond that, applications with ‘white sounding’ names get looked at a lot more often than those with ‘black-sounding’ names.

But by doing a little more research, you can show that of black people whose resumes are functionally identical to white people, far fewer blacks are hired.

Now, this doesn’t even imply a conscious racism on the part of the interviewer. It can be latent and institutional. But it still does happen.

Here’s some good reading for you to do to educate yourself on this subject, since you seem interested but uninformed:

princeton.edu

12 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:31:19am

The best I can do is treat all people with respect and dignity no matter what their race, gender or life circumstance. I’m sure as hell not gonna spend my days feeling guilty about being white and male.

13 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:09:14am

re: #12 SidewaysQuark

The best I can do is treat all people with respect and dignity no matter what their race, gender or life circumstance. I’m sure as hell not gonna spend my days feeling guilty about being white and male.

I think the best that white people can do is to not do the standard affirmative action for white people thing. To be aware of an unconscious preferences you have and to strive to consciously correct them. Guilt isn’t useful. Understanding you’ve had an easier time of it than someone else and giving them the respect for that is a lot more worthwhile. Doing what you can to fix systematic injustice is even better.

14 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:33:12pm
15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:08:24pm

re: #14 GatorsEatsTaters

Black people make up 10% of the population of the USA. So if 10 women come into an interview lets assume 1 is black and the rest are other races. The person doing the hiring has to pick the best candidate, so the black woman has not just one other person to compete with, but 9 others. So the fact that black women do not make the positions as much is simply based on math.

I don’t even know what to do with this. Obviously, what I’m saying, and what the study shows, is that, taking into account their representation in the population, black women are hired less often than white women.

You didn’t read it, did you?

16 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:35:47pm
17 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:19:39pm

re: #16 GatorsEatsTaters


Did you read the linked article which details the systemic racism in the workplace and other areas of American life, or not?

18 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:22:03pm
19 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:25:15pm

re: #18 GatorsEatsTaters

I did, and it did not answer why the public sector overwhelmingly has more black people than the general population

Do you have anything to say to the numerous ways that racism is detailed in that document, though? Rather than trying to pick one particular hole, what about the overall portrayal of the way that white privilege exists in the US?

20 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:37:51pm
21 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:43:27pm

re: #20 GatorsEatsTaters

That is one of the most pathetic attempts at mocking up a counterargument I’ve ever seen. Your description of the paper isn’t even close to correct, as anyone can see by looking at it.

Do you think people are just not going to look at it and see that you’re wildly misrepresenting it, or what?

Do you even understand what ‘institutional racism’ is? It doesn’t require any individual to actually be consciously racist in decision making. At least understand the subject you’re trying to argue about.

22 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:06:08pm
23 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:11:12pm

re: #22 GatorsEatsTaters

So your arguing that if a white kid does not get a job at a place where the manager is black, it is because the manager is racist against whites?

No, that’s specifically not what I’m saying, which again shows that you didn’t really read the paper.

And no, I have no understanding of this ‘institutional racism’ you speak of because my whole life I have grown up around people of every race. The majority of my friends are either east asian and middle eastern, my best friend is 3/4 black and my GF is part pacific islander. I have never in my own personal experience ever ran into someone who had a serious racist streak in them. I am sure people like that are still around these days but they are few and far between. Also every job I have worked, and I mean every job, was never composed of just one race of people. So unless you are applying to the KKK or Black Panthers on your job application I seriously have not seen this monolithic singular race conspiracy theory where the Illuminati is behind the scenes keeping certain races down

That’s not what it is, it’s just that white people tend to get treated better. And it’s demonstrably true.

24 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:18:56pm
25 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:20:49pm

re: #24 GatorsEatsTaters

Well, again, read the paper.

26 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:24:56pm
27 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:27:41pm

re: #26 GatorsEatsTaters

I can read that bullshit paper over and over, doesn’t change that the fact that I am (mostly) white and are wondering where the fuck this so called white privilege is, how come the fuck I have been working 4 years now only part time, how come I have been applying at least once a week to other jobs and have not heard one damn reply despite the fact I am careful to only apply to jobs I am qualified for. Explain that god damn fucking white privilege again will you?!

Other things being equal, it is better to be white than black in the US. That is white privilege.

28 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:33:37pm
29 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:36:44pm

re: #28 GatorsEatsTaters

Yeah look at all those white basketball players who make tens of millions of dollars every year…

What part of “other things being equal” was unclear?

Stop your self-pity party long enough to at least read what is posted.

30 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:39:06pm
31 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:43:24pm
32 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:46:49pm

re: #31 GatorsEatsTaters

So while I will not deny racism is still around our country (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are good examples) I for one have never had a problem with someone simply because of the way they were born, so if you expect me to submit to the white guilt gulag then please take a free all paid expense vacation to the island of kiss-my-ass

What a surprise that the only two given examples of US racists are black activists that have been wingnut boogiemen for decades. ///dripping

33 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:50:08pm
34 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:41:24pm

re: #26 GatorsEatsTaters

The paper isn’t bullshit. It’s well-researched, well-sourced, and you haven’t done anything to discredit it in any way.

As I explained in my first post, white privilege means that you have it easier than a black person in the same situation. A black person would be less likely to be hired for that job, or any of the jobs that you’re applying for. You’re less likely to be arrested for a crime, being arrested you’d receive a shorter sentence than a black person.

I don’t know if you’re just actually this confused, or if you’re purposefully misunderstanding the concept of ‘white privilege’. It isn’t ‘life is awesome for all white people’ it’s, ‘demonstrably, white people get treated better than others by most of the institutions in our society’.

35 SnowdenBaggerVance  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:47:36pm

re: #14 GatorsEatsTaters

Black people make up 10% of the population of the USA. So if 10 women come into an interview lets assume 1 is black and the rest are other races. The person doing the hiring has to pick the best candidate, so the black woman has not just one other person to compete with, but 9 others. So the fact that black women do not make the positions as much is simply based on math.

rejectum ad knowledgum

36 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 2:08:54am

Which Sci-Fi author was it that wrote the best ever essay on white privilege? It had something to do with video games.

37 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 1:16:39pm

re: #36 FemNaziBitch

Which Sci-Fi author was it that wrote the best ever essay on white privilege? It had something to do with video games.

whatever.scalzi.com

John Scalzi. Link above. Straight white male is the lowest difficulty setting there is in the game of life.

38 palomino  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 4:59:10pm

re: #33 GatorsEatsTaters

“There is nothing more painful to me than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.” -Jesse Jackson

Checkmate

If that’s your idea of checkmate, I’m guessing you don’t win at chess very often.

And, since chess involves mathematical thinking, and you don’t even understand percentages, I’d also guess you don’t win at checkers very often either.

39 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 5:03:26pm

re: #38 palomino

If that’s your idea of checkmate, I’m guessing you don’t win at chess very often.

And, since chess involves mathematical thinking, and you don’t even understand percentages, I’d also guess you don’t win at checkers very often either.

I ended up having better things to do yesterday than respond to this feeble attempt on the part of a ghost.

Funnily enough, I used to play quite a bit of chess (never got really good at it, unfortunately).


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