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1 aagcobb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 5:48:54am

Let me preface this by saying that I 100% favor the right of LGBT to marry and I think it is a right protected by the Constitution. I had no sympathy for the bakery that refused to sell a wedding caked for a ssm, because its just a freaking cake. They would bake the same cake for anyone else. But, photography is an art form, a form of expression, and I think photographers have a 1st Amendment right to not take photographs they don’t want to.

2 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 7:39:05am

re: #1 aagcobb

Commercial photography is that which is done for hire, and all artistic elements are ultimately under the control of the person doing the paying. Unless that studio refuses all weddings it can’t refuse just some based on that. Your argument holds no merit or value, anymore than the religious argument does.

3 calochortus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 7:53:02am

It is my understanding that there are a lot of poses that are used that don’t work as well for same sex couples, or even older hetero couples, so I can understand a wedding photographer not feeling competent to do a same sex wedding. I would think if that was discussed openly and honestly that one could turn down a same sex wedding.
“I think you’re icky and my religion does too” is not a legitimate reason for a business not to serve someone.

4 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 7:55:13am

re: #3 calochortus

I’m sorry but would the “I don’t feel competent” argument ring true for a mixed race couple? If not then it doesn’t really work here either, it’s just another rationalization for prejudicial treatment. How about a disabled person in a wheelchair (because there certainly are some poses that would not work without changing or accommodating)

5 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 7:56:00am

Also, please explain exactly which poses don’t work?

6 aagcobb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:10:09am

re: #2 Randall Gross

Commercial photography is that which is done for hire, and all artistic elements are ultimately under the control of the person doing the paying. Unless that studio refuses all weddings it can’t refuse just some based on that. Your argument holds no merit or value, anymore than the religious argument does.

Well, obviously the N.M. Court agrees with you. However, I believe there are legitimate 1st Amendment issues, and if this case ended up in front of SCOTUS, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kennedy, though a champion of gay rights, switched on this issue to favor the photographer. I do want to take a look at the N.M. opinion though.

7 aagcobb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:36:30am

I found the Human Rights Commission opinion and saw that the case was against Elane Photography, LLC, and not the individual photographer, so I’m modifying my opinion. I don’t believe that a for-profit entity can be considered to have religious beliefs which merit protection by the 1st Amendment. If Elaine Huegenin, the owner and principal photographer, had a personal religious objection to photographing the ceremony, the Company could’ve hired another photographer to do the job, so I have changed my mind and I think the N.M. Court came to the correct conclusion.

8 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:00:26am

I don’t get why people sign up for jobs that they know they’re going to have a conflict with. It’s reminiscent of the pharmacists who refuse to prescribe certain drugs to certain people.Find a new line of work if photographing happy gay couples bothers you so much.

9 calochortus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:46:33am

re: #4 Randall Gross

No, I don’t think a mixed race couple would qualify for the “I don’t feel competent” argument. A wheelchair? Well, I can see where someone might not be able to capture what the couple had in mind. Of course, there are tons of totally incompetent photographers out there, so who knows.

The “some poses don’t work” is something I read in a piece by someone who plans same sex (among other) weddings. I have no actual knowledge of the situation.

In case it wasn’t clear, I was not supporting the idea of a photographer refusing to do a same sex wedding, merely that I had read that there could be issues. I think it’s always a good idea for someone who can’t do a job properly to admit that fact up front.

10 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:53:07am

re: #9 calochortus

No, I don’t think a mixed race couple would qualify for the “I don’t feel competent” argument. A wheelchair? Well, I can see where someone might not be able to capture what the couple had in mind. Of course, there are tons of totally incompetent photographers out there, so who knows.

The “some poses don’t work” is something I read in a piece by someone who plans same sex (among other) weddings. I have no actual knowledge of the situation.

In case it wasn’t clear, I was not supporting the idea of a photographer refusing to do a same sex wedding, merely that I had read that there could be issues. I think it’s always a good idea for someone who can’t do a job properly to admit that fact up front.

To me that’s a simple matter of asking the newlyweds what they would like, something that all photographers have to do with their subjects day in, day out.

11 calochortus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:13:44pm

re: #10 Randall Gross

To me that’s a simple matter of asking the newlyweds what they would like, something that all photographers have to do with their subjects day in, day out.

I think that is true. And a truly good photographer wouldn’t have much of a problem. There are, as I said, a lot of poor photographers (and bakers and florists and whatever else) out there.


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