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Pass the CR and Debt legislation ACA and Conference Time to pay our debts. The time is right. One for all and all for one

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54 comments

1 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 5:37:09am

You sad sick fuck.

2 No Country For Old Haters  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 5:43:17am

Francis,

Why are you posting increasingly delusional rants to LGF?

You know that your deranged text contains no truth, and will not distract from the Republicans taking our country hostage. You know the facts are available, your lies are easily exposed, and you know almost everyone here sees right through absurd propaganda from the degenerate remains of the Republican party.

So what’s your issue? Why portray yourself as a deranged wingnut at a place where the Conservative reverse-meritocracy is not in effect, and you will not gain social stature for lying?

Wouldn’t your time be better spent either getting some professional help, or lying to wingnuts who will love you for lying to them?

3 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 5:49:17am

Hey, Francis. Why don’t we see letters from you to your own Representative? Could it be that your Representative is doing exactly what you want him to do, shut the government down? You aren’t fooling anyone with this drivel.

4 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 5:52:55am

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

What is sick and sad about me expressing my discontent with people who don’t do their jobs.?

What is sad is your use of the English language and the fact that you only care about yourself.

5 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 5:55:51am

re: #3 Sionainn

The letters are sent to the leadership. Everyone in this letter received a copy except Pelosi, there was a problem with her email.

The leaders have allowed their subordinates to take over and stop them from doing their job.

6 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:04:51am

re: #2 No Country For Old Haters

I speak for myself. The wing nuts are as much at fault as the liberals. My concern is for America, not the democrats or republicans, so unless you really know me and what I really believe, don’t call me a liar.

Did I state that only democrats should resign or all the people responsible?

Your problem is you don’t understand people that care for America because the country is divided by democrats and republicans. There is good and bad in both parties, but what makes the most sense is always being smothered by the radicals.

7 No Country For Old Haters  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:04:56am

Charles,

Do you want LGF associated with someone who’s sending confused all-caps rants to politicians?

8 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:10:44am

re: #3 Sionainn

The drivel comes from people that can’t think for themselves and need a label to hang on to.

Put aside your distain for the opposing party and care about what both parties are doing to America.

9 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:12:38am

re: #5 francis

The letters are sent to the leadership. Everyone in this letter received a copy except Pelosi, there was a problem with her email.

The leaders have allowed their subordinates to take over and stop them from doing their job.

Oh, bull. You don’t really care or you would send letters to the intransigent congresscritters, one of whom belongs to you.

10 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:13:34am

re: #8 francis

The drivel comes from people that can’t think for themselves and need a label to hang on to.

Put aside your distain for the opposing party and care about what both parties are doing to America.

I’m fully aware of who is doing exactly what to this country. Too bad you haven’t figured that out yet.

11 No Country For Old Haters  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:13:37am

re: #6 francis

You really are lying, but I will concede that you may actually believe blatantly misleading things you say. It’s still lying.

You’re trying to create a false equivalency between the Democrats and the Republicans during a crisis planned months ago and manufactured by Republicans. The Democrats ARE doing their jobs. To negotiate with the hostage takers would legitimize their poisonous behavior, and they’d do it again and again.

We cannot allow a small group of nutjobs in a failing political party to redefine how laws are passed and financed.

If you really cared about the country, your rants would be directed at the people responsible for this crisis, rather than this false-equivalency bullshit. Instead you distract from the reality and throw accusations about selfishness at people who aren’t participating in your alternate-reality bubble.

All the info you need to figure out who those people are has been posted at this site.

12 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:14:20am

re: #7 No Country For Old Haters

There is no freedom of speech or expression on this site. You can’t deal with an opposing opinion unless it is in print by an associated authority? Liberals that don’t like an opposing view point.

13 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:16:48am

re: #8 francis

Fuck you, francis. Just because I don’t think like you (if that’s the word for what goes on between your ears) doesn’t mean I don’t think at all.

I’m now cogitating on the essential submissive nature of wingnuts characterized by francis’s refusal, or perhaps inability, to use a capital letter in his name.

14 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:17:08am

re: #12 francis

There is no freedom of speech or expression on this site. You can’t deal with an opposing opinion unless it is in print by an associated authority? Liberals that don’t like an opposing view point.

Oh, the old “no freedom of speech” crapola. This is a private site run by a private citizen who appears to be humoring you and allowing you to post your ignorant letters on his site. You don’t have a right to post here, but you are being allowed to do so…and then you have the audacity to whine about how there is “no freedom of speech or expression” here? You’re still here, aren’t you?

Gah. /facepalm

15 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:20:57am

re: #9 Sionainn

If you are returning an item and the sales person doesn’t give you any satisfaction, do you go away or ask to see the manager.

Speaking to my senators is 1/50 of exposure
speaking to my representative iv 1/435 of exposure

Speaking to the leadership give me full and better exposure.

Who makes the decisions, the 1/50th, the 1/435, or the leadership?

16 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:24:05am

re: #14 Sionainn

Maybe the owner of this site has more vision than you do and recognizes that so called wing nuts like me have some worth.

17 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:30:04am

re: #13 Romantic Heretic

Is that your major objection, using a capital letter in my name. Are you that angry that you need to use profanity?

This attitude will not get you invited to Christmas dinner.

18 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:37:36am

re: #13 Romantic Heretic

Beside hating me, what part of the letter do you object to?

Are they getting the job done? NO

Are the Koch brothers and George Soros major influences? Yes

Are Americans suffering from this shut down? Yes

If they worked for you and they weren’t getting the job done, would you fire them?

19 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:41:16am

re: #15 francis

If you are returning an item and the sales person doesn’t give you any satisfaction, do you go away or ask to see the manager.

Speaking to my senators is 1/50 of exposure
speaking to my representative iv 1/435 of exposure

Speaking to the leadership give me full and better exposure.

Who makes the decisions, the 1/50th, the 1/435, or the leadership?

Considering that your Representative is one of the ones who refuses to listen to the leadership of his party, you’d do much better speaking with him.

20 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:42:10am

re: #18 francis

Beside hating me, what part of the letter do you object to?

Are they getting the job done? NO

Are the Koch brothers and George Soros major influences? Yes

Are Americans suffering from this shut down? Yes

If they worked for you and they weren’t getting the job done, would you fire them?

Got anything linking Soros to this debacle?

21 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 6:51:27am

Repost from yesterday as I still want an answer.

I don’t understand you Francis.

Do you think using the letter (that I could not know the contents of beyond what you claimed) as a source of information was a bad idea or not?

Also just to be clear when I say “the letter” I am not referring to this letter, but the letter that you talked about Obama writing you.

If it was a bad idea, and a bad argument strategy, why did you bring it up in the first place?

22 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 7:35:06am

re: #20 Sionainn

discoverthenetworks.org

23 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 7:41:57am

re: #21 jamesfirecat

James, I write the letters based on how I feel and my observations. The letters from Obama are his prior speeches.
The information I use is from public media and I draw my own conclusions from that.

The idea that I am here pushing a wing nut agenda is absurd. These are my words and my letters and my feelings and they, quite frankly, go both ways.

The animosity on this site to opposing opinion is staggering. If I’m a wing nut then what are you folks?

24 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 7:51:15am

re: #23 francis

James, I write the letters based on how I feel and my observations. The letters from Obama are his prior speeches.
The information I use is from public media and I draw my own conclusions from that.

The idea that I am here pushing a wing nut agenda is absurd. These are my words and my letters and my feelings and they, quite frankly, go both ways.

The animosity on this site to opposing opinion is staggering. If I’m a wing nut then what are you folks?

You still did not answer my question Francis, that or I am not making myself clear enough.

You say all the information you use is from public media, but the letter you talked about Obama writing you, is a physical letter that you can hold in your hand.

A physical letter that you on your end of the internet can read, and I on my end of the internet can not.

I have to trust you that it says exactly what you tell me it says.

Francis, do you think it is fair for you to use that letter which I can not see to support an argument you are making?

25 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 7:51:24am

re: #19 Sionainn

Simple solution;
Obama to Reid, send representatives to the conference table to confer on the CR and Debt bill.

Obama to Boehner, Reid is sending representatives to the conference to confer on the CR and Debt bill. Have your people there. If you don’t show up we will proceed without you.

Obama to the House, Reid is sending people to the conference to discuss the CR and Debt bill. If Boehner isn’t sending anyone and you would like to attend you are welcome and maybe we can come to a resolution.

Now the onus is on Boehner, but if you remember right, he did this, but he had stipulations. That doesn’t mean they could not have discussed the CR and Debt bill.

You can’t tell me that out of 435 representatives no one will show up to discuss the CR and Debt bill.

26 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 7:57:17am

re: #24 jamesfirecat

the link that was posted was the exact letter that was sent to me and can be viewed on the internet. The only difference is it has his signature on it.

I trust what you say and argue that point because it is coming from you. This is how you feel and it is your opinion or you wouldn’t comment on it. My opposing view is how I feel, regardless of the source.
To argue fact against fact is tough since the is no one authority you can believe.

27 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 8:02:56am

re: #26 francis

the link that was posted was the exact letter that was sent to me and can be viewed on the internet. The only difference is it has his signature on it.

I trust what you say and argue that point because it is coming from you. This is how you feel and it is your opinion or you wouldn’t comment on it. My opposing view is how I feel, regardless of the source.
To argue fact against fact is tough since the is no one authority you can believe.

If the letter is online (and I will admit it is since I’ve seen versions of it after I started googling around) that’s all well and good, but then why not simply link to the letter as soon as you brought it up rather and asking me to take you at your word that you had a physical letter which you could tell me the contents of without letting me know there was some sort of way to verify it from an impartial source?

28 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 8:06:29am

re: #26 francis

To argue fact against fact is tough since the is no one authority you can believe.

Can you clarify what you mean by this some Francis.

Is it along the same lines of

When a few days ago you told me to

“Get off the data train and think for yourself.”


Would you prefer we argue opinions and our philosophies of how the government works (or should work) over facts? (IE argue without needing to worry so much about facts?)

29 SnowdenBaggerVance  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 9:04:08am

re: #23 francis

The animosity on this site to opposing opinion is staggering. If I’m a wing nut then what are you folks?

The animosity comes from your general ignorance and adherence to fallacy, not to mention your salty demeanor when challenged.

If you’re a wingnut you’re a fucking wingnut, whether every other member of this site is a Steven Hawking or monkey pounding a keyboard.

The opposing opinion victimhood is another fallacy, as merely expressing another opinion is benign in and of itself. If you cannot explain that opinion and resort to a generally pissy demeanor, don’t whine about being marginalized for having an opposing opinion.

And don’t type in ALL CAPS. It says ‘LOOK AT ME LISTEN TO ME.’

30 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 10:07:11am

re: #12 francis

There is no freedom of speech or expression on this site.

The First Amendment doesn’t mean what you think it means. It says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Congress shall make no law…. That means the federal government shall make no law prohibiting or abridging any of the things that follow. It does not apply to private citizens or organizations.

I know I’m wasting my time as you seem to prefer wallowing in your ignorance to dealing with uncomfortable realities, but I’m going to post this anyway in case someone else is reading who might be inclined to give credence to your inanities: What does free speech mean?

re: #16 francis

Maybe the owner of this site has more vision than you do and recognizes that so called wing nuts like me have some worth.

Or maybe he recognizes the value of allowing you to repeatedly display, through your Pages, the utter ridiculousness & dishonesty of those Americans who live in the wingnut bubble, in constant denial of easily verified facts and full of self-righteous pride in their abject ignorance.

re: #25 francis

Obama to Boehner, Reid is sending representatives to the conference to confer on the CR and Debt bill. Have your people there. If you don’t show up we will proceed without you.

FFS, you still don’t get it. They cannot proceed without them, that’s not how our government works. You must not read any of the links we provide. Your willful ignorance is staggering.

Now the onus is on Boehner, but if you remember right, he did this, but he had stipulations. That doesn’t mean they could not have discussed the CR and Debt bill.

The onus is already on Boehner and the radical right-wing TP faction that’s behind this stupid, thuggish, and wholly selfish stunt.

31 klys  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 11:49:53am

It must be really nice to live in a reality-free bubble where you can make up your own interpretation of how the world works without having to fit it to pesky things like facts. Kind of comforting.

32 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 11:51:45am

re: #23 francis

…snip
The animosity on this site to opposing opinion is staggering. If I’m a wing nut then what are you folks?

Don’t know about those other people over there, but I’m a hard-core leftist apologist trying to keep the message alive for another generation. You are no more nuts than my father-in-law, who kept up the same string of despairing authoritarian rants until he put a bullet through his head.

33 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 11:53:02am

re: #30 CuriousLurker

You need to wake up, Obama can get the discussion going anytime he wants. If he has to wait on Boehner or Reid, then he isn’t much of a leader. You are so polluted by the your political party, you can’t think for yourself. If I am a wing nut, then what are you, the perfect moderate. Reid, Pelosi and this President haven’t played by the rules and when some one does it to them they cry.

I don’t trust any politician and don’t like the convoluted language they use in the law.

It is ok to put a cross in a glass of piss and call that freedom of speech but it’s not ok for me to express my view points on this web site.

34 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 11:55:41am

re: #32 Decatur Deb

Sorry about your father in law, but don’t count on me fading away or doing harm to myself. I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative, the worst place to be.

35 klys  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 11:59:45am

re: #33 francis

a) Freedom of speech just means the government doesn’t get to regulate what you say. It does not mean that you can go to a newspaper, give them an article, and then claim they don’t support freedom of speech when they refuse to print it and have anyone take you seriously.

b) If you are still posting and your words are still there, I guess I’m not seeing how your freedom of speech is being oppressed? Unless you want the ability to say stupid shit without having people tell you it’s stupid shit - that is, freedom of CONSEQUENCES of your speech.

In which case …sorry, but that would infringe upon our freedom of speech, to which we have the same right you do here.

36 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 12:04:14pm

re: #35 klys

a) Freedom of speech just means the government doesn’t get to regulate what you say. It does not mean that you can go to a newspaper, give them an article, and then claim they don’t support freedom of speech when they refuse to print it and have anyone take you seriously.

b) If you are still posting and your words are still there, I guess I’m not seeing how your freedom of speech is being oppressed? Unless you want the ability to say stupid shit without having people tell you it’s stupid shit - that is, freedom of CONSEQUENCES of your speech.

In which case …sorry, but that would infringe upon our freedom of speech, to which we have the same right you do here.

QFT

37 klys  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 12:06:33pm

re: #36 CuriousLurker

QFT

If he sticks around long enough we may even make it through most of basics civics with francis!

////

38 EPR-radar  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 12:18:24pm

re: #37 klys

If he sticks around long enough we may even make it through most of basics civics with francis!

////

Purely for the edification of the lurkers, since the ignorance here is clearly invincible.

I gave up long ago, after there was no satisfactory answer to why “Obama is a bigot”.

39 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 12:30:03pm

re: #38 EPR-radar

Purely for the edification of the lurkers, since the ignorance here is clearly invincible.

I gave up long ago, after there was no satisfactory answer to why “Obama is a bigot”.

LOL. Yes, I’m still waiting for the answer to that one. I’m sure it will be conveniently ignored yet again.

40 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 12:38:42pm

re: #33 francis

You need to wake up, Obama can get the discussion going anytime he wants. If he has to wait on Boehner or Reid, then he isn’t much of a leader. You are so polluted by the your political party, you can’t think for yourself. If I am a wing nut, then what are you, the perfect moderate. Reid, Pelosi and this President haven’t played by the rules and when some one does it to them they cry.

I don’t trust any politician and don’t like the convoluted language they use in the law.

It is ok to put a cross in a glass of piss and call that freedom of speech but it’s not ok for me to express my view points on this web site.

Who’s stopping you from expressing your viewpoints? You’re just pissed off because we disagree with you, call out your bullshit, and counter your ignorance with facts instead of treating you as some sage elder. You can spew all the insults you want, but you’re never going to earn any respect here as long as you’re unable to provide independent facts from reliable sources and keep exhibiting a complete lack of critical thinking skills (not to mention rank ignorance of the most basic aspects of how our country is run). This was explained to you from the get-go, so stop whining.

Look, francis, America has changed whether you like it or not and regardless of whether you think it’s for the better or the worse. The 1950’s ended over half a century ago and that era isn’t coming back. America has moved on, deal with it. Or don’t deal with it and be left behind to spend however many years you have left tilting at windmills and feeling bitter & resentful towards those who refuse to join in your delusion.

Just then they came in sight of thirty or forty windmills that rise from that plain. And no sooner did Don Quixote see them that he said to his squire, “Fortune is guiding our affairs better than we ourselves could have wished. Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them. With their spoils we shall begin to be rich for this is a righteous war and the removal of so foul a brood from off the face of the earth is a service God will bless.”

“What giants?” asked Sancho Panza.

“Those you see over there,” replied his master, “with their long arms. Some of them have arms well nigh two leagues in length.”

“Take care, sir,” cried Sancho. “Those over there are not giants but windmills. Those things that seem to be their arms are sails which, when they are whirled around by the wind, turn the millstone.”

—Part 1, Chapter VIII. Of the valourous Don Quixote’s success in the dreadful and never before imagined Adventure of the Windmills, with other events worthy of happy record

I think I’m going to start calling you DQ instead of francis. LOL

41 klys  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 12:43:46pm

re: #40 CuriousLurker

I think I’m going to start calling you DQ instead of francis. LOL

That’s an insult to great literature.

42 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 1:28:44pm

re: #39 Sionainn

I gave you the answer and the Webster definition, you didn’t like it.
Try this definition: a person who is rigidly devoted to his own group, religion, race or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. Maybe the word politics doesn’t belong there but I didn’t write it, this was out of the American dictionary.

Do you think Obama is devoted to the democratic party and their ideals, I do and I see nothing wrong with him believing what he does, but I don’t agree with everything he does.

43 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 1:37:00pm

re: #42 francis

I gave you the answer and the Webster definition, you didn’t like it.
Try this definition: a person who is rigidly devoted to his own group, religion, race or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. Maybe the word politics doesn’t belong there but I didn’t write it, this was out of the American dictionary.

Do you think Obama is devoted to the democratic party and their ideals, I do and I see nothing wrong with him believing what he does, but I don’t agree with everything he does.

Oh, that’s too cute. You’ve managed to not come up with one single thing that shows that Obama is a bigot. Pathetic.

44 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 1:37:17pm

re: #40 CuriousLurker

No, I don’t ask you why you feel the way you do and want it documented in blood. I read the same material you do and draw a different conclusion and that aggravates you. You think I’m ignorant and claim I am stupid because I don’t document everything I say and I say this, I should not have to document everything I say. I accept respect your opinions as yours, not documented instruments.

45 francis  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 1:44:32pm

re: #43 Sionainn

You know what is pathetic, kids gunned down in Chicago, Newtown, and other places, kids that are not being treated for cancer, children starving in this country even though the snap program is at an all time high, 70% of blacks the quit or don’t graduate school, millions of poor people that will have no insurance even thought the ACA is loaded with taxes. That is pathetic. Gee, he’s only the president, what can he do about it?

46 klys  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 1:47:10pm

re: #44 francis

We need to clarify the difference between opinions and assertions, here. Also, facts.

An opinion is saying something like, “I like cats.”

An assertion is saying something like, “Cats are cool because lolcats exist.”

A fact is saying something like, “Cats have 4 legs, unless they are a mutant or have suffered an accident of some sort.”

Now. Opinions are your own. Facts are the same for everyone and can be documented. Sometimes (frequently) facts are used as the reason in an assertion.

And sometimes, when you make assertions, people will ask you to provide your reasons (including sources for things you say are facts) in order to accept what you are asserting.

What you get called on frequently are your assertions and/or incorrect facts. When you say “Obama promised medical coverage for everyone under the ACA,” and are asked to provide documentation, it is not because we disagree with your opinion that the ACA sucks (although most of us do) but because you are making assertions that the facts don’t back up.

But hey, it’s easier to say “FREE SPEECH” and then accuse everyone else of lying about you/not knowing you.

47 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 1:51:26pm

re: #44 francis

No, I don’t ask you why you feel the way you do and want it documented in blood. I read the same material you do and draw a different conclusion and that aggravates you. You think I’m ignorant and claim I am stupid because I don’t document everything I say and I say this, I should not have to document everything I say. I accept respect your opinions as yours, not documented instruments.

The point is that you are getting criticized for not having a basic understanding of how our government works and the fact that you don’t seem to even care that you don’t understand.

48 Sionainn  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 1:52:05pm

re: #45 francis

You know what is pathetic, kids gunned down in Chicago, Newtown, and other places, kids that are not being treated for cancer, children starving in this country even though the snap program is at an all time high, 70% of blacks the quit or don’t graduate school, millions of poor people that will have no insurance even thought the ACA is loaded with taxes. That is pathetic. Gee, he’s only the president, what can he do about it?

…and you wonder why we call you a wingnut.

49 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 2:03:53pm

re: #44 francis

No, I don’t ask you why you feel the way you do and want it documented in blood. I read the same material you do and draw a different conclusion and that aggravates you. You think I’m ignorant and claim I am stupid because I don’t document everything I say and I say this, I should not have to document everything I say.

Yes, I get it—you think that you should be able to draw any conclusion you wish, no matter how divorced from reality it is. It doesn’t aggravate me, it confounds & embarrasses me.

I accept respect your opinions as yours, not documented instruments.

Actually, no, you do not. Less than 2 hours ago you said:

You need to wake up…. You are so polluted by the your political party, you can’t think for yourself. If I am a wing nut, then what are you….

Or how about last Friday when you said:

….Maybe you should pay more attention to the content and not the writer….I wonder where you come up with your very biased opinions?

That is not accepting/respecting a person’s opinion it’s a personal attack without anything to back it up but your bile towards anyone who disagrees with you, advises you not to use questionable sources, or asks you to cite sources for the claims you make. It’s childish buffoonery that fools no one.

50 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 2:13:59pm

re: #45 francis

You know what is pathetic, kids gunned down in Chicago, Newtown, and other places, kids that are not being treated for cancer, children starving in this country even though the snap program is at an all time high, 70% of blacks the quit or don’t graduate school, millions of poor people that will have no insurance even thought the ACA is loaded with taxes. That is pathetic. Gee, he’s only the president, what can he do about it?

In other words, you have no proof that he’s a bigot, so you’re pulling out a red herring and slapping it down on the table:

Red herring: Logical fallacy

As an informal fallacy, the red herring falls into a broad class of relevance fallacies. Unlike the strawman, which is premised on a distortion of the other party’s position, the red herring is a seemingly plausible, though ultimately irrelevant, diversionary tactic. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a red herring may be intentional, or unintentional, it does not necessarily mean a conscious intent to mislead.

The expression is mainly used to assert that an argument is not relevant to the issue being discussed. For example, “I think that we should make the academic requirements stricter for students. I recommend that you support this because we are in a budget crisis and we do not want our salaries affected.” The second sentence, though used to support the first sentence, does not address that topic.

51 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 2:18:53pm

re: #37 klys

If he sticks around long enough we may even make it through most of basics civics with francis!

////

Indeed. It’s good for brushing up on Civics 101, not to mention a mildly amusing daily exercise in “See how many logical fallacies can you spot in this post!”

52 majii  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 5:36:18pm

re: #51 CuriousLurker

I am a retired high school civics, economics, and U.S. history teacher, CuriousLurker. If francis had been in one of my civics, U.S. history and/or economics classes, he would have never passed the class because he substitutes his opinion for facts and expects everyone to accept them as valid when they’re not. There are so many things about the federal government, federal policies, history, economics and federal laws that he doesn’t understand, but he’ll never admit it. I suggested to him a few days ago that he consider auditing classes in history, foreign policy, and economics at a local college in his area so that he can gain a better understanding of the issues he writes about. I have little confidence that he’ll take my advice, though, since it seems that he’s not as concerned about being wrong as he should be, and it appears that he craves and relishes the attention he receives in the responses to the ”letters” he posts here.

53 garhighway  Mon, Oct 7, 2013 7:16:01pm

It seems to me like Francis has a problem with cause-and-effect.

54 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 8, 2013 11:01:48am

re: #52 majii

These conversations must drive the educator in you crazy. I suspect you’re right about the reason for the letters—they appear to be less and less about concern for real, viable solutions to our government’s problems, and more about about getting attention, even if it’s negative.


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