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1 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 8, 2013 2:38:16pm
“There are so many that grew up in my situation, in conservative, religious homes that are being taught this,” Montgomery said. “It’s just not accurate. It’s not right. And it’s so damaging to the kids.”

Good for her!

Another great article by Brady McCombs, who used to cover Arizona. He wrote these last week.

2 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Oct 8, 2013 2:42:46pm

This very unlikely to work.

The Mormon Church only bends to one pressure. That of the Federal Government. And with their Tea Party having a significant share in government right now, nothing will happen.

3 KiTA  Tue, Oct 8, 2013 3:31:01pm

It’s always harder to hate people that you actually directly know.

4 Skip Intro  Tue, Oct 8, 2013 4:14:04pm

Either you believe the fiction your religion of choice spews out or you don’t.

If you don’t, leave. The entire premise of religion is that it is the unvarnished, inerrant word of whatever god you worship. What kind of a religion changes that just because people want them to?

You either believe it fully, or see it as total bullshit. There’s no middle ground here, unless you just attend for the pot luck meals.

5 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 8, 2013 4:23:41pm

re: #4 Skip Intro

Either you believe the fiction your religion of choice spews out or you don’t.

If you don’t, leave. The entire premise of religion is that it is the unvarnished, inerrant word of whatever god you worship. What kind of a religion changes that just because people want them to?

You either believe it fully, or see it as total bullshit. There’s no middle ground here, unless you just attend for the pot luck meals.

Not true. Even big institutions like the LDS and the Catholic church are human institutions. That means they can be changed by humans. In some religions, like Islam, there isn’t one single hierarchy calling the shots.

There is more to religious institutions than dogma and potlucks. If you don’t want to participate in them, fine, I don’t either. But I see no reason to criticize those who seek to reform theirs.

I think when religious institutions modernize, they improve. When the world’s largest institutions improve, life gets better for lots of people. What’s wrong with that?

6 Skip Intro  Tue, Oct 8, 2013 6:47:02pm

re: #5 wrenchwench

I think when religious institutions modernize, they improve. When the world’s largest institutions improve, life gets better for lots of people. What’s wrong with that?

Has the Catholic Church “modernized”? Sure, the priests don’t speak in Latin any more - although some are going back to that - but the bottom line in Christian religions is that the bible is the inerrant word of God. Period.

I don’t know how many times I heard that when I attended the local Evangelical church. You couldn’t become a member without signing off on that.

If it gets “modernized” then it really isn’t the inerrant word of God at all, is it? So what’s the point of the religion? You just pick and choose the parts you like (and yes, I know that’s exactly how it works)? Then you belong to a social club with quasi-religious foundations that can be changed from time to time to keep the membership happy.

7 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Oct 8, 2013 7:50:56pm

Oh good grief. “but the bottom line in Christian religions is that the bible is the inerrant word of God. Period.” Hogswallop. That belief is held by fundamentalists and has only become common in the last hundred years or so. Much more common is a belief based on the letter attributed to Paul, 2nd Timothy, that states that scripture is inspired by god - which still leaves room for the erring hand of humans. There are also those who believe that scripture was created completely by humans while still having lessons to teach.

I could just as easily start spewing about “fundamentalist atheism” and wouldn’t that just get your undies in a bunch?

Someday when you really want to learn something about it, put down that mile wide paintbrush and ask a few people. Or even read a book or two.

8 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 9, 2013 5:01:31am

re: #3 KiTA

It’s always harder to hate people that you actually directly know.

You’ve obviously been traveling in better circles than I.

9 6monkeys  Wed, Oct 9, 2013 8:39:06am

My mom was a member of the LDS church from the time she was little. Before they married, my father converted and promised her that they would raise their kids in the Church. They did. My three siblings and I were raised to be good little Mormons, but I think my dad’s lackadaisical attitude toward the Church’s teachings rubbed off on us because none of us continued attending once we moved out of my parents house.

A year ago at a family dinner, my parents said they had an announcement. They had renounced their membership in the Church. I was shocked! It turns out that the Prop 8 fight really disturbed my mom because of the church’s role in it. Then when she realized that the official stance of the church is to encourage parents to turn their backs on their homosexual children if those children refused to deny their sexuality she began to really question her faith and Church doctrine. Although none of us kids are homosexual, she couldn’t imagine turning her back on us for any reason but especially for something like sexuality.

She told us this all just a few weeks before the election last year, so, of course, being the smartass I am I said “So…does this mean Romney no longer has your vote?” (in actuality, my very conservative mom voted for Obama in 2008 because she did not like McCain since he cheated on his first wife and she thinks Palin is an idiot, so I was 50% sure she would have voted for Obama again even if she were still a church member).

This summer my parents attended the local Gay Pride parade. This is the sign they carried:Image: straight.jpg

10 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 9, 2013 10:17:42am

re: #6 Skip Intro

Has the Catholic Church “modernized”? Sure, the priests don’t speak in Latin any more - although some are going back to that - but the bottom line in Christian religions is that the bible is the inerrant word of God. Period.

I don’t know how many times I heard that when I attended the local Evangelical church. You couldn’t become a member without signing off on that.

If it gets “modernized” then it really isn’t the inerrant word of God at all, is it? So what’s the point of the religion? You just pick and choose the parts you like (and yes, I know that’s exactly how it works)? Then you belong to a social club with quasi-religious foundations that can be changed from time to time to keep the membership happy.

You attended an evangelical church and heard that. I attended a Catholic church and did not hear that. You claim your experience applies to all of Christianity. I don’t. You only see the option to ‘take-or-leave’ the thing you claim all Christians believe. Others see different options.

I think it’s time for you to broaden your perspective.

11 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 9, 2013 10:18:03am

re: #6 Skip Intro

Has the Catholic Church “modernized”?

Read about Vatican II.

12 EPR-radar  Thu, Oct 10, 2013 5:20:38pm

re: #6 Skip Intro

Has the Catholic Church “modernized”? Sure, the priests don’t speak in Latin any more - although some are going back to that - but the bottom line in Christian religions is that the bible is the inerrant word of God. Period.

I don’t know how many times I heard that when I attended the local Evangelical church. You couldn’t become a member without signing off on that.

If it gets “modernized” then it really isn’t the inerrant word of God at all, is it? So what’s the point of the religion? You just pick and choose the parts you like (and yes, I know that’s exactly how it works)? Then you belong to a social club with quasi-religious foundations that can be changed from time to time to keep the membership happy.

This is essentially the fundamentalist critique of more flexible religious traditions. If one has ditched fundamentalist doctrines, it is important to get rid of the all-or-nothing reasoning fundamentalism relies on, or it is very likely that the net effect will be substitution of one dogma for another.


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