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1 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 5:46:47pm

Christie I think faces a paradoxical Catch-22. What’s made him popular in New Jersey is the exact same stuff that will make him less popular when he vies with other Republicans for the presidential nomination in a few years. The other thing is national voters aren’t going to overlook his stands on issues where he’s opposed to them so easily. Take minimum wage. Governor Christie opposed that while a large number of people voted for it in New Jersey. Christie can’t continue to take soft support/opposition on an issue and expect to be taken seriously as a would be president forever. His leadership for Sandy is no doubt admired and I do appreciate how he put his state before partisan labels but he can’t ride the coattails of that forever. I know Christie is more conservative than Rudy Giuliani is but he risks Giuliani’s primary fate if he continues this. I don’t blame the GOP establishment for loving the guy. A popular two term Republican governor in a bluest of blue states that just rejected a Tea Party firebrand (Longegan) in exchange for a progressive rising star (Booker). I just hope Christie doesn’t sell out his soul to get nominated by the GOP primary voters. Remember there was a time when McCain and Romney were moderates too and McCain went from being a sponsor with Ted Kennedy on immigration reform to build the dang fence and Mitt well we all know where Mitt’s been on the issues. Christie has an opportunity to be a voice of reason in a party that continues to lose its mind and I hope for the sake of our political system he can do it. I may not like the Republican Party but it’s better for all of us if they live on planet earth with the rest of us.

2 sagehen  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 7:17:14pm

He also did pretty well with the Black vote (almost 20%); because

1) he’s friendly/respectful/cooperative with Black D officials both above (the Pres) and below (mayor of Newark) his own station. He treats them as their position, works with them on where their interests/needs/views coincide instead of a narrow focus on the stuff they disagree about; he doesn’t act like he has to hold his nose to be in the same room with them.

2) he hasn’t done any of the voter suppression crap that so many R govs are pushing.

Black voters really aren’t looking for special handouts — they just want candidates to speak to them and about them as if they really believe Black Americans are just as American as the rest of us (30% of black voters are conservative; they really would go R if the R’s weren’t so vigorously offensive to Blacks to pander to racists.)

3 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 7:58:50pm

re: #2 sagehen

He also did pretty well with the Black vote (almost 20%); because

1) he’s friendly/respectful/cooperative with Black D officials both above (the Pres) and below (mayor of Newark) his own station. He treats them as their position, works with them on where their interests/needs/views coincide instead of a narrow focus on the stuff they disagree about; he doesn’t act like he has to hold his nose to be in the same room with them.

2) he hasn’t done any of the voter suppression crap that so many R govs are pushing.

Black voters really aren’t looking for special handouts — they just want candidates to speak to them and about them as if they really believe Black Americans are just as American as the rest of us (30% of black voters are conservative; they really would go R if the R’s weren’t so vigorously offensive to Blacks to pander to racists.)

This is actually a really good point in Christie’s favor that I never thought about. And it’s another reason why he needs to be the leader of the Republican Party’s hopeful return to sanity. I am not a fan of his mostly for ideological reasons but I don’t find Christie to be racially divisive or insensitive.

4 Mattand  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 5:59:39am

Christie gave an interview a few weeks ago where he openly admitted he’d discriminate against his own kids if they were gay, regarding the gay marriage issue.

The day before the election, he flipped out on a teacher who asked him honest questions, rather than deal with her in a adult manner.

Christie once used state troopers at a town hall to force a NJ citizen to the podium so the governor could humiliate the man.

I don’t want that kind of ignorance in my governor, and I really don’t want it in my president.

If one can live with that kind of horrible behavior in their political leaders, that’s their choice. I’d say empathy probably isn’t that person’s strong suit.

It really speaks volumes about Republicans in particular and voters in general that the view this guy as the great uniter. It’s fucking idiotic, quite frankly.

5 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 12:26:43pm

re: #4 Mattand

Christie gave an interview a few weeks ago where he openly admitted he’d discriminate against his own kids if they were gay, regarding the gay marriage issue.

The day before the election, he flipped out on a teacher who asked him honest questions, rather than deal with her in a adult manner.

Christie once used state troopers at a town hall to force a NJ citizen to the podium so the governor could humiliate the man.

I don’t want that kind of ignorance in my governor, and I really don’t want it in my president.

If one can live with that kind of horrible behavior in their political leaders, that’s their choice. I’d say empathy probably isn’t that person’s strong suit.

It really speaks volumes about Republicans in particular and voters in general that the view this guy as the great uniter. It’s fucking idiotic, quite frankly.

Yeah, it’s actually quite sad that a man who yells at teacher is considered the leader of the sane wing of his party. I really thought the Dems should have called him out on being out of touch on many issues important to people in your state. He still probably would have won but Christie needs to know that he still suffers from many of the same flaws that nearly every other prominent Republican does.

6 Mattand  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 3:50:49pm

re: #5 HappyWarrior

Yeah, it’s actually quite sad that a man who yells at teacher is considered the leader of the sane wing of his party. I really thought the Dems should have called him out on being out of touch on many issues important to people in your state. He still probably would have won but Christie needs to know that he still suffers from many of the same flaws that nearly every other prominent Republican does.

LOL, tell me about it.

Like I said the other day, a chunk of NJ and the US view of Christie begins and ends with Sandy. I’ll always give him credit for that; he really did put the state before party.

However, that’s literally all they choose to see in him. That’s why I get so batshit when people start slobbering over him as a great uniter. Particularly Republicans who, deep down, know what a toxic waste site the GOP has become; they’ll delude themselves over anything to make the party somehow appear more sane.

I know two teachers who love the guy to death. The cognitive dissonance is insane. These guys are willingly supporting a politician who wants to make their jobs already harder than what they are. It’s like chickens who are pro-Colonel Sanders. It makes no sense.

I still say Christie will go full metal wingnut, a la John McCain, the closer it gets to nomination time. You cannot be a leader in today’s GOP without embracing the crazy.

7 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 5:20:03pm

re: #4 Mattand

It’s not ‘ignorance’ that drove Christie to yell at that teacher; For a Republican governor of any state those teachers not expressly on your side are the enemy, politically. The unions those teachers belong will endorse the Democrat in the governor’s race no matter what the Republican says or does, so the Republican has no incentive to keep an open mind when a teacher asks them a question. The best tactic for the Republican is to either attack or deliver a canned response. Trying to deliver a thinking response risks the candidate producing a sound byte that can be used for a Democratic ‘Gotcha!’ ad. Better to stick to the script.

8 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 5:23:37pm

re: #4 Mattand

There’s one other thing in play: Chris Christie is a Republican in a heavily Democratic state. Given that, he has adopted the tactic of Ruthless Aggression on some key issue. Part of that tactic and the persona it requires is being an asshole sometimes. Seeming hostile and threatening is used to scare opponents and keep them from resisting your plans.

9 No Country For Old Haters  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 5:36:57pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

so the Republican has no incentive to keep an open mind when a teacher asks them a question.

You’re saying Republicans are assholes. You know that, right?

10 jamesfirecat  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 5:37:33pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

Seeming hostile and threatening is used to scare opponents and keep them from resisting your plans.

“The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”
―Princess Leia

11 jamesfirecat  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 5:39:12pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

It’s not ‘ignorance’ that drove Christie to yell at that teacher; For a Republican governor of any state those teachers not expressly on your side are the enemy, politically. The unions those teachers belong will endorse the Democrat in the governor’s race no matter what the Republican says or does, so the Republican has no incentive to keep an open mind when a teacher asks them a question. The best tactic for the Republican is to either attack or deliver a canned response. Trying to deliver a thinking response risks the candidate producing a sound byte that can be used for a Democratic ‘Gotcha!’ ad. Better to stick to the script.

How would you feel if a democrat started shouting angrily at every preacher they spoke with or at least 90% of them since if your a preacher and not explicitly be democratic supporter you “must” be in eye GOP’s corner.

12 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 6:18:00pm

Deleted. I’m not going to reply further on this page, since I’ve already dug a hole.

13 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 7:06:41pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

It’s not ‘ignorance’ that drove Christie to yell at that teacher; For a Republican governor of any state those teachers not expressly on your side are the enemy, politically. The unions those teachers belong will endorse the Democrat in the governor’s race no matter what the Republican says or does, so the Republican has no incentive to keep an open mind when a teacher asks them a question. The best tactic for the Republican is to either attack or deliver a canned response. Trying to deliver a thinking response risks the candidate producing a sound byte that can be used for a Democratic ‘Gotcha!’ ad. Better to stick to the script.

Okay, DF, I know you’re not responding to this page anymore but you really need to stop making excuses for this kind of crap because of the teacher’s union leaning Democratic in its endorsements. The teachers unions despite what you believe are not always going to support the Democrats and even if so? He should still show some respect and understanding to a person who’s dedicated their life to educating our nation’s youth. Also, I remember when the teachers unions would endorse Republicans here in Virginia. Have you ever thought about why teachers unions may have gone more Democratic? Your party in recent years has decided to scapegoat them. So please spare us this they deserve to be yelled at by Christie because they’re a Democratic leaning group. You’re better than that, you know that.

14 avanti  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 8:10:02pm

Hang in there Dark, I was the token leftie for a year or more before this blog moved left. You would be banned from a site like Hot Air for being a RINO, so stick around and fight for a more moderate right. BTW, not a fan of everything Christy, but he’s a Commie to the far right, and for that I give him props.

15 palomino  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 8:12:45pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

It’s not ‘ignorance’ that drove Christie to yell at that teacher; For a Republican governor of any state those teachers not expressly on your side are the enemy, politically. The unions those teachers belong will endorse the Democrat in the governor’s race no matter what the Republican says or does, so the Republican has no incentive to keep an open mind when a teacher asks them a question. The best tactic for the Republican is to either attack or deliver a canned response. Trying to deliver a thinking response risks the candidate producing a sound byte that can be used for a Democratic ‘Gotcha!’ ad. Better to stick to the script.

What kind of answer is that? Are you a robot?

Should Republicans adopt the same attitude towards black or gay questioners, since most of them vote Dem?

Maybe Dems should refuse to answer questions from white middle aged men, since they vote heavily gop.

Do you see how this kind of calculation makes things even worse? What you suggest would futher diminish what little dialogue there currently is. There’s clearly a huge cultural chasm in the nation. It’s growing, as the US grows and further diversifies. The tactics you support would only serve to make things worse.

16 No Country For Old Haters  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 8:40:42pm

re: #15 palomino

Should Republicans adopt the same attitude towards black or gay questioners, since most of them vote Dem?

He seems to have positioned the Republicans as the enemy of anyone who isn’t one of them.

He makes a compelling argument for never electing Republicans since Democrats are so much more inclusive and capable of compromise.

17 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 8:43:04pm

re: #14 avanti

Hi Avanti! How goes it?

18 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 8:43:36pm

re: #14 avanti

Hang in there Dark, I was the token leftie for a year or more before this blog moved left. You would be banned from a site like Hot Air for being a RINO, so stick around and fight for a more moderate right. BTW, not a fan of everything Christy, but he’s a Commie to the far right, and for that I give him props.

I intend to hold the line and I thank folks here for being a better grade of poster.

Haven’t seen you here in ages, though. How are you?

19 avanti  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 5:22:28am

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

Been busy, and just dropped in and was happy to see you were still here. When I was one of the token “Commie’s”, you had my back, glad to help cover yours. I think we both want real choices in elections, and no one side has 100% of the answers.

20 avanti  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 5:23:16am

re: #17 wrenchwench

Very well indeed, thanks for asking.

21 ObserverArt  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 7:54:55am

I just want to say I added a couple of down dings to Dark in this page but I want to make it very clear it has nothing to do with him being a Republican.

Humanity should never trump politics. Civility and respect should always win the day when dealing with others no matter what your political stance.

Christie fails at the above routinely. He is not presidential material. And if he is the best the Republicans can turn out they really do have major problems.

Look at the anger in Christie’s face as he “you peoples” that teacher. That is not what I want in a leader, whether the teacher is a union member or not. I do not understand how anyone could excuse that and then call it part of what he needs to do to win over his party.

What is the difference in that behavior and the flak in NFL Football about telling a bully to go toughen up a teammate? The only answer should be nothing.

I keep asking myself, what is at the heart of that party if they keep doing what they do? I fear the answer to that question is not good for this country and that is why they dance and fake their way around playing political games. This is not a game and that is also at the heart of why I added the negative ratings to Dark’s comments.

22 Skip Intro  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 8:07:35am

re: #21 ObserverArt

I keep asking myself, what is at the heart of that party if they keep doing what they do? I fear the answer to that question is not good for this country and that is why they dance and fake their way around playing political games. This is not a game and that is also at the heart of why I added the negative ratings to Dark’s comments.

The “heart” of the party is to win elections, no matter what. There’s nothing any GOP candidate could do or say that would result in them getting less than 40%-45% of the vote in any election, anywhere. Fool 5% or 6% of the remaining low information voters and they can win. Suppress the voters who tend to vote against them and it gets even easier.

This is the sole strategy of the GOP in the 21st century.

23 nines09  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 10:07:32am

Some very insightful reporting on potential obstacles to his coronation as POTUS. Another very fine article here. That and the fact that he ran against no money, no support and no name and did not need the GOP/TP machine.

24 CuriousLurker  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 10:21:20am

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

It’s not ‘ignorance’ that drove Christie to yell at that teacher; For a Republican governor of any state those teachers not expressly on your side are the enemy, politically. The unions those teachers belong will endorse the Democrat in the governor’s race no matter what the Republican says or does, so the Republican has no incentive to keep an open mind when a teacher asks them a question. The best tactic for the Republican is to either attack or deliver a canned response. Trying to deliver a thinking response risks the candidate producing a sound byte that can be used for a Democratic ‘Gotcha!’ ad. Better to stick to the script.

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

There’s one other thing in play: Chris Christie is a Republican in a heavily Democratic state. Given that, he has adopted the tactic of Ruthless Aggression on some key issue. Part of that tactic and the persona it requires is being an asshole sometimes. Seeming hostile and threatening is used to scare opponents and keep them from resisting your plans.

There’s so much wrong in those two lines I don’t even know where to start, Dark. This is 21st century America, and we’re talking about the most populous state in the union, not some foreign battlefield filled with “opponents” or a bizarre medieval fiefdom governed by hostile warlords.

Christie is the governor of NJ, all of NJ not just the Republican part. He’s responsible for the well being of everyone (including me) and owes a modicum of respect to all, not just those who agree with him ideologically.

There’s also the issue of same-sex marriage. His (thankfully failed) effort to block it even after the NJ state Assembly passed a bill allowing it was a really shitty thing to do. His election didn’t grant him a mandate to impose his morality on people, and I’m glad the State Supreme Court smacked him down on it. BTW, the decision was unanimous and included a justice he considered to be on “his side”.

I don’t get how he can stand up against anti-Muslim bigotry, then turn around and tolerate it against gays. It’s not right—according to our Constitution, all Americans should have equal rights when it comes to some basic things, regardless of how you, or I, or Christie, or anyone else feels about it personally.

25 CuriousLurker  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 1:01:07pm

re: #23 nines09

Good articles. Corruption in NJ politics is well documented & goes wayyy back.

26 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 5:23:40pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

There’s one other thing in play: Chris Christie is a Republican in a heavily Democratic state. Given that, he has adopted the tactic of Ruthless Aggression on some key issue. Part of that tactic and the persona it requires is being an asshole sometimes. Seeming hostile and threatening is used to scare opponents and keep them from resisting your plans.

It’s not seeming. It’s being. That’s what you share with many other Republicans: you don’t get that.
You can’t seem hostile and threatening. They are things that if you seem them, they are. Just like the GOP doesn’t just seem intolerant and hateful. It is.

27 Mattand  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 8:11:06pm

re: #24 CuriousLurker

Damn. Well said. Thank you.

28 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 10, 2013 12:21:29am

It is also a shame that the American media”s obsession with body image and weight will keep them from addressing the issues when discussing Christie.

He is in a catch-22 situation in that his perceived “moderateness” and bipartisan approach will shut him out of a lot of GOP primaries unless the party can seriously re-leverage the nomination process.


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