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1 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 3:09:59pm

Huh. I was just commenting on this over here. Time for a little rerun.

If the directives of 2009 [.pdf] had been in place a couple of decades earlier, my sister would have died when she was taken to a Catholic hospital with an ectopic pregnancy. This is from those directives:

48. In case of extrauterine pregnancy, no intervention is morally licit which constitutes a direct abortion.

Fucking animals.

And from my other comment:

I hope the damned Catholics are forced out of the hospital business. Or even better: Pope Francis tells ‘em: Abortion is OK, in fact REQUIRED if needed to save the mother’s life, health, and ability to bear children in the future. That would be a start.

2 PeterWolf  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 4:12:42pm

They just need to be forced to put big signs out the front and on all their advertising an literature that state the healthcare services they offer are defined by their religion, not the actual healthcare needs of the patient.

3 ausador  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 4:31:14pm

While I admire their chutzpah, I think that this suit could end up being counter-productive legally. Sure, they are technically right according to the letter of the current legal precedents and of the Constitution, but I simply can’t see this suit being upheld by the Federal courts.

Ten to fifteen years years from now I think they would have an excellent chance of succeeding with this argument, but I think it is extremely unlikely in the current climate.

We are already seeing a Supreme Court backing away from any stance that could involve major change or increased unfavorable regulation. In fact they are easing some long existing restrictions, why? Perhaps because they acknowledge the current hostile and divisive political climate?

To me this suit is overreach, it has almost no chance to succeeding and instead gives the court an opportunity to further enshrine and elucidate the religious rights of corporations and religious business organizations.

We are already sweating the decision of the court on two other cases that could possibly codify corporate religious rights into federal legal precedents. Now does not seem to be the time, at least to me, to force the court into facing the issue yet again from a third angle. :(

4 SidewaysQuark  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 5:10:39pm

I hope the ACLU succeeds in stomping these fanatics in the face.

5 calochortus  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 5:17:00pm

re: #3 ausador

I really don’t think a medical facility risking women’s lives over reproductive health issues is an overreach. If the bishops are practicing medicine without a license, then at least the word should get out.

More and more communities have no choice other than Catholic hospitals-and they are rebranding themselves as “Dignity Health” rather than Catholic Healthcare so people may not even realize that their hospital is Catholic.

6 ausador  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 7:10:39pm

re: #5 calochortus

I really don’t think a medical facility risking women’s lives over reproductive health issues is an overreach. If the bishops are practicing medicine without a license, then at least the word should get out.

More and more communities have no choice other than Catholic hospitals-and they are rebranding themselves as “Dignity Health” rather than Catholic Healthcare so people may not even realize that their hospital is Catholic.

And if the court swats this suit down with a majority opinion that tells the Catholic church that they are entitled to continue their existing practices and perhaps even expand on them, what then?

Currently their hospital workers and administrators are at least restricted somewhat by the threat of possible lawsuits over their behavior. What happens if the Supreme Court gives them a green light to continue as they have been and allows leeway for worse?

I don’t understand why the ACLU is pushing this suit now rather than waiting a few months to see how the two current “religious rights of corporations” suits are handled by the court first.

This could very well come back to bite us all in the ass and result in further restrictions of women’s/patient’s rights. Sometimes in the political/legal world pragmatism is a necessity and initiatives for change need a bit of consideration as to their timing.

I’m all for what the ACLU is asking for, don’t mistake my questioning of their timing for opposition on my part. But I do deeply question their timing of this suit as a possible major mistake on their part. :(

7 Political Atheist  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 7:17:33pm

re: #6 ausador

It’s a gambit. Might work out might go as you say. I trust the ACLU to thread the needle of too soon or too late.

8 calochortus  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 7:25:24pm

re: #6 ausador

One can never know when it is the perfect moment to do something like this, but waiting doesn’t guarantee success either.
There is also the possibility that if the courts find that not providing healthcare to some patients is just fine, that the outrage will be sufficient to change laws.

As things stand now, the usual people-the poor and powerless -will suffer as the result of Catholic “Healthcare” ignoring their legitimate medical needs. And that will continue until someone takes on the church.

9 ausador  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 8:06:15pm

There may be another goal that the ACLU might be aiming for with this suit…

Hmm…another possibility is that by filing this challenge now the ACLU may just be trying to make it obvious to the Supreme Court Justices what kind of morass they will be stepping into. If they rule in favor of corporations having religious rights that can in some instances supercede those of their employees or the public at large there will be hundreds of similar suits to follow.

ehh?

10 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 3, 2013 8:35:32pm

Someone ought to write a letter to Francis. He’s already got quite a reputation for answering. As a Jesuit who cares more about Christ than about Dogma he might actually listen.

Yeah, I know it’s only a might. Still, I’d be tempted to try it though if I wasn’t on the wrong side of the Tiber for the people he has to keep semi-happy; he seems to be someone who tries to actually be a Christian rather than just a priest.

I’ve said it before - if he were the rule rather than the exception, my life would be very different.

11 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 4, 2013 2:54:57am

Offering bad health advice is often worse than offering none at all

12 calochortus  Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:39:14am

I would also add that the title of this page makes the Catholic position seem far more benign than it is. I don’t care what the Catholic bishops’ “view” is on abortion. The problem is that they won’t permit it to save a woman’s life in a hospital they own. Sometimes the only hospital in town.

13 garzooma  Wed, Dec 4, 2013 10:24:30am

re: #12 calochortus

I would also add that the title of this page makes the Catholic position seem far more benign than it is

The title caused me to do a doubletake. The ACLU suing someone over their views? Suing for thought crimes would be an odd thing for a civil liberties organization.


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