Pages

Jump to bottom

12 comments

1 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 8:57:43am

In my opinion, if you have a business that consists of offering your services to the public in exchange for money, there is no difference between the photograph, the cake, website, the catering, or the cleaning of the sewer afterwards. You cannot refuse a public accommodation on the basis of sexual orientation.

I’m not surprised that libertarians have expressed support for the ‘right’ to discriminate. I am surprised the editors of the LA Times are among them.

There’s some more discussion of it here.

2 geoffm33  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 9:06:34am

Posted this in a front page thread:

re: #218 Political Atheist

Gay rights: Can discrimination be legal?
A majority of businesses shouldn’t be able to refuse to serve gay couples, but ‘expressive professions’ may deserve an exception.

latimes.com

LGF Poll

I call absolute bullshit:

In her petition to the Supreme Court, Huguenin warns that the decision against her threatens other “expressive professions” including “marketers, advertisers, publicists and website designers.”

Much as we support same-sex marriage and oppose discrimination, we do see a distinction between businesses that provide the same product or service to all comers and those that collaborate in the creation of a personalized message. We acknowledge that drawing that line will sometimes be difficult.


latimes.com

So marketers, website designers, etc can’t be compelled to take on work for same-sex couples/causes because collaboration?

How is providing a service of food at a restaurant or shelter at a hotel truly any different than building a website? How does collaboration or creativity play any role here?

If I were an honest web designer that opposed gay marriage (I’m not) I would be up front in telling them that I am happy to try my best, but the collaboration may not result in the best work because I don’t fully understand the lifestyle.

3 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 9:17:54am

Here is my point of interest-And I think this shows the “I call bullshit” above as a tad overblown, at least in tyhe legal sense.
re: #2 geoffm33

My bold-

There are constitutional values on both sides of the case: the couple’s right to equal treatment and Ms. Huguenin’s right to free speech. I asked Louise Melling, a lawyer at the American Civil Liberties Union, which has a distinguished history of championing free speech, how the group had evaluated the case.

Ms. Melling said the evaluation had required difficult choices. Photography is expression protected by the Constitution, she said, and Ms. Huguenin acted from “heartfelt convictions.”

4 geoffm33  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 9:18:06am

Oh, and one of the “No” votes in the poll is mistakenly mine. Should be a “Yes”. Reading comprehension fail.

5 geoffm33  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 9:25:33am

re: #3 Political Atheist

Here is my point of interest-And I think this shows the “I call bullshit” above as a tad overblown, at least in tyhe legal sense.


My bold-

Ms Melling’s comments don’t change my point of view. I may be on the losing end of legal precedent, but it won’t change my point of view.

However, my bullshit comment was in direct response to the quoted portion that followed it.

threatens other “expressive professions” including “marketers, advertisers, publicists and website designers.”

If photography is expression protected by the constitution, is a weekend newspaper circular protected as well?

6 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 9:31:14am

re: #5 geoffm33

If photography is expression protected by the constitution, is a weekend newspaper circular protected as well?

Maybe, as in the constitutional divide of these “expressive” kinds of work. It’s worth noting this is a divide respected by our best advocates of free speech and anti discrimination. Of course it’s far from the first time one right conflicts with another. Retail sales is very different in nature than those that generate content from their minds and judgement.

In multiple cases writing and photography have enjoyed special protections.

7 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 9:50:45am

re: #3 Political Atheist

Here is my point of interest-And I think this shows the “I call bullshit” above as a tad overblown, at least in tyhe legal sense.


My bold-

Ms. Melling may have found the choices ‘difficult’, but others do not. From the same link:

“This was a straightforward case of discrimination in the public marketplace,” Mr. Wolff said. “No court has ever held that the First Amendment gives businesses a license to sell goods and services to the general public but then reject customers based on race or religion or sexual orientation, in violation of state law.”

Emphasis added.

And whether Ms. Melling found the choices difficult or not, she came to the same conclusion (that it’s illegal discrimination). I don’t know what the hell is wrong with the editors of the LA Times.

8 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 9:52:04am

re: #6 Political Atheist

Retail sales is very different in nature than those that generate content from their minds and judgement.

Not always.

9 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 9:56:47am

re: #3 Political Atheist

Here is my point of interest-And I think this shows the “I call bullshit” above as a tad overblown, at least in tyhe legal sense.


My bold-

Louise Melling’s opinion:

We are hopeful that today’s unanimous decision can help put an end to this type of discrimination in the marketplace and move us closer to a nation that respects and honors everyone’s humanity.

Ooops, here’s the link.

10 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 10:04:21am

re: #7 wrenchwench

Ms. Melling may have found the choices ‘difficult’, but others do not. From the same link:

Emphasis added.

And whether Ms. Melling found the choices difficult or not, she came to the same conclusion (that it’s illegal discrimination). I don’t know what the hell is wrong with the editors of the LA Times.

Nothing needs to be wrong with them IMO. It’s not that clear cut legally or morally. Differing rights are in conflict, and that should never be taken as a given or lightly. The ACLU sees the conflict, the judge sees it, the Times falls in that span, with a legit worry about compelled intellectual content.

11 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 10:11:24am

re: #10 Political Atheist

Nothing needs to be wrong with them IMO. It’s not that clear cut legally or morally. Differing rights are in conflict, and that should never be taken as a give or lightly. The ACLU sees the conflict, the judge sees it, the Times falls in that span, with a legit worry about compelled intellectual content.

The artist is not compelled. The writer is not compelled. The business is compelled. As it should be. As the ‘uneasy’ judge agreed. As the ACLU agreed, vehemently. The LA Times has gone dudebro. In my opinion, that is what is wrong with them.

12 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 12, 2013 5:29:55pm

Don’t hat tip me if you’re not going to use the part I quoted. ‘Technically’ there’s nothing wrong with doing that, but it’s annoying and it might give someone who reads the Page without the comments the wrong impression.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Boarghazi Ain’t Going Away! - SOME MORE NEWS [VIDEO] Get the best discount of the year on Raycons! Now through the end of December, go to buyraycon.com to get 15% off your order! Show those boars how you feel with our brand new "NO MOAR BOARS" t-shirt available ...
teleskiguy
23 hours, 21 minutes ago
Views: 214 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201129Saturday was limited to some light and general work, owing to an early morning 16 mile run.We (well she) painted another 25% of the deck. Almost done for the first coat.Then there will be a ton of touch up and ...
dangerman
1 day, 11 hours ago
Views: 204 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
The Big Moon - Why Director/Editor - Jonjo LoweProducer - Rosie BrearDoP - Alistair LittleCinema 4D Animation - Jay DarlingtonGrade - Myles Bevan @ Time Based ArtsEdit/FX Assistant - Carina EtaeCollage Design Assist - Bex LiuChoreography - Grace Nicol Special thanks - Thrds Studio, ...
Thanos
3 days, 9 hours ago
Views: 377 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Deep Sea Diver - Impossible Weight (Studio Video) “Impossible Weight” off Deep Sea Diver’s new album 'Impossible Weight' out now. Filmed during the recording of Impossible Weight at Hall of Justice in Seattle WA. STREAM / BUY "Impossible Weight" here smarturl.it WATCH OFFICAL MUSIC VIDEO HERE : ...
Thanos
1 week ago
Views: 617 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Eddie Vedder - Matter of Time (Official Music Video) The official music video for "Matter of Time" by Eddie Vedder. Written for everyone worldwide afflicted with Epidermolysis Bullosa (EB). To help fund research aimed at treating and curing EB, please donate to the EB Research Partnership: ebresearch.org “Matter ...
Thanos
1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 680 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 2 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201122 Saturday was general maintenance around the place.Mowing, weed whacking, palm tree trimming, etc.Nothing picture worthy or really, even pond related. Sunday was more rain. We really were lucky for that first year. Not one Sunday did we get rained ...
dangerman
1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 734 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
Nduduzo Makhathini - UmlothaMusic video by Nduduzo Makhathini performing Umlotha. © 2020 Universal Music (Pty) Ltd South Africa vevo.ly
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 910 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 7 •
Brian Eno - Decline and Fall (From ‘O Nome Da Morte’) The official music video for "Decline and Fall”, a track from the new album “Film Music 1976 - 2020”, is a cinematic collaboration between Brian Eno and acclaimed Brazilian film director Henrique Goldman which contemplates rain and fire, fiction ...
Thanos
2 weeks ago
Views: 1,432 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Brian Eno - Like I Was a Spectator 'Like I Was A Spectator', a brand new track by Brian Eno with Daniel Lanois and Roger Eno from ‘Apollo – Atmospheres & Soundtracks – Extended Edition’. The video was created using rare N.A.S.A. footage.Order now: brianeno.lnk.to Follow Brian ...
Thanos
2 weeks ago
Views: 1,132 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201115After two really sunny and swell days since Eta left, Saturday was a mix of mostly sun and a bit of rain.We still managed to be really productive both days anyway. Got all the lava rock washed and shoveled into ...
dangerman
2 weeks, 2 days ago
Views: 1,345 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 6
Tweets: 0 •