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1 HappyWarrior  May 14, 2014 1:27:00pm

The party of Jefferson Davis.

2 palmerskiss  May 14, 2014 1:52:30pm

re: #1 HappyWarrior

The party of Jefferson Davis.

in more ways than one - he seems to think African Americans are not people, considering how casually he dismisses their oppression. Women, also, apparently.

3 HappyWarrior  May 14, 2014 2:07:22pm

re: #2 palmerskiss

in more ways than one - he seems to think African Americans are not people, considering how casually he dismisses their oppression. Women, also, apparently.

Yep. And honestly enough of the Robert E. Lee was a great Christian crap. Great Christians wouldn’t side with slaveholders over abolitionists.

4 palmerskiss  May 14, 2014 2:15:07pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

Yep. And honestly enough of the Robert E. Lee was a great Christian crap. Great Christians wouldn’t side with slaveholders over abolitionists.

Here’s looking at you, Stone Mountain, Georgia.

5 Bulworth  May 14, 2014 4:25:17pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

Yep. And honestly enough of the Robert E. Lee was a great Christian crap. Great Christians wouldn’t side with slaveholders over abolitionists.

Seriously.

6 Dark_Falcon  May 14, 2014 5:59:05pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

Yep. And honestly enough of the Robert E. Lee was a great Christian crap. Great Christians wouldn’t side with slaveholders over abolitionists.

You’ve got to understand it in the context of the time, though. Lee grew up being taught that slavery was not an evil and that it was in fact compatible with Christianity. He also saw his first loyalty as being to his home state of Virginia. Those beliefs were the key ones informing his choice to fight for the South.

So while I don’t see Robert Edward Lee as a model Christian, he was still a good man. He fought for a wicked cause, but he was not himself wicked.

7 team_fukit  May 14, 2014 6:11:44pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

We’ll never really know how “good” of a man General Lee was, though, because his descendants won’t give professional historians full access to his papers.

8 EPR-radar  May 14, 2014 6:23:38pm

re: #7 team_fukit

Thanks for the link. The linked article ends well:

Still, it would nice to know more about the man who decided to violate his solemn oath to protect and defend the Constitution by taking up arms against the United States — the nation his idol George Washington and his father Light-Horse Harry Lee fought to sustain in the American Revolution. Robert E. Lee is important historically because he devoted himself to a cause that was, at its core, anti-American; yet he — among countless other Confederates — was convinced that he acted only as a paragon of patriotism. It’s the essential delusion of every traitor. The truth is, though, that we will never really know Robert E. Lee until his family allows researchers to have complete access to his papers.

9 CriticalDragon1177  May 14, 2014 6:29:11pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

You’ve got to understand it in the context of the time, though. Lee grew up being taught that slavery was not an evil and that it was in fact compatible with Christianity. He also saw his first loyalty as being to his home state of Virginia. Those beliefs were the key ones informing his choice to fight for the South.

So while I don’t see Robert Edward Lee as a model Christian, he was still a good man. He fought for a wicked cause, but he was not himself wicked.

Good point.

10 CriticalDragon1177  May 14, 2014 6:33:29pm

Palmerskiss

I find it both shocking and amazing that a black pastor, even in a far right church could possible wish that the South won the civil war. This guy must be incredibly ignorant or stupid not to realize what that would have meant.

11 CriticalDragon1177  May 14, 2014 6:34:21pm

re: #7 team_fukit

We’ll never really know how “good” of a man General Lee was, though, because his descendants won’t give professional historians full access to his papers.

Maybe there’s something in there the family isn’t particularly proud of.

12 EPR-radar  May 14, 2014 6:35:52pm

re: #11 CriticalDragon1177

Maybe there’s something in there the family isn’t particularly proud of.

That is the logical conclusion.

13 steve_davis  May 14, 2014 7:12:03pm

Yes, the state’s right to allow slavery. Sheesh, this guy’s a dumbass. South Carolina’s declaration of secession mentions state’s rights zero times and slavery about a half-dozen, as I recall.

14 EPR-radar  May 14, 2014 7:25:25pm

re: #13 steve_davis

Yes, the state’s right to allow slavery. Sheesh, this guy’s a dumbass. South Carolina’s declaration of secession mentions state’s rights zero times and slavery about a half-dozen, as I recall.

The CSA constitution also has some ripe passages. Preamble:

We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.

Nice shout out to a God that apparently approves of chattel slavery.

Article IV, section 2 (1):

The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

Slavery seems to be thoroughly baked into the cake here.

Article IV section 3(3):

The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.

Have I mentioned lately how much I despise confederates, neo-confederates, and civil war revisionist history?

15 HappyWarrior  May 14, 2014 8:06:48pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

You’ve got to understand it in the context of the time, though. Lee grew up being taught that slavery was not an evil and that it was in fact compatible with Christianity. He also saw his first loyalty as being to his home state of Virginia. Those beliefs were the key ones informing his choice to fight for the South.

So while I don’t see Robert Edward Lee as a model Christian, he was still a good man. He fought for a wicked cause, but he was not himself wicked.

Of course, I understand it. I just refuse to lionize Lee which is what he’s doing here. Evil? No, The ultimate Christian general? No as well. I’m not saying Lee was evil but I don’t think he was the perfectly benevolent Christian general and that’s exactly what he’s being made out here by Daubenmire.

16 HappyWarrior  May 14, 2014 8:08:11pm

re: #7 team_fukit

We’ll never really know how “good” of a man General Lee was, though, because his descendants won’t give professional historians full access to his papers.

Had no idea about that. And honestly and I say this as a Virginian, there were plenty of Virginia men who stayed loyal to the union. It’s why we have the state of West Virginia today. So, while I won’t call Lee evil, I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize him for condoning slavery and secession when many of his fellow Virginians did not.

17 team_fukit  May 14, 2014 8:38:11pm

re: #14 EPR-radar

What I love most about the Confederate Constitution is that, sans slavery, it’s basically the political playbook of today’s Right.


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