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1 lostlakehiker  May 27, 2014 3:05:52pm

Not to advocate violence against women, or to argue that it shouldn’t be taken seriously…but the fact remains that more men are murdered every year than women, both in the US and in most other nations. The fact also remains that in this particular incident, four of the six murder victims were men.

Violence against women is an important, significant slice of the overall problem of violence. It’s not the whole pie, or most of it.

The good news here is that violence, in the long view, is going out of style. Stephen Pinker has documented this very carefully in his book “The Better Angels of our Nature”. Our very skeletons reflect this fact: today’s humans are generally speaking thinner-boned than those of even a few thousand years ago, especially in the skull. Carrying around the extra bone mass, as insurance against getting mortally injured from a blow to the head, just doesn’t seem to pay like it used to.

2 wrenchwench  May 27, 2014 3:11:52pm

re: #1 lostlakehiker

Not to advocate violence against women, or to argue that it shouldn’t be taken seriously…but the fact remains that more men are murdered every year than women, both in the US and in most other nations. The fact also remains that in this particular incident, four of the six murder victims were men.

Was murder the ‘violence’ being discussed? No.

Way to miss the point.

Why did you to post a distraction instead of a comment about the content of the article?

3 klys  May 27, 2014 3:13:46pm

re: #1 lostlakehiker

Not to advocate violence against women, or to argue that it shouldn’t be taken seriously…but the fact remains that more men are murdered every year than women, both in the US and in most other nations. The fact also remains that in this particular incident, four of the six murder victims were men.

Violence against women is an important, significant slice of the overall problem of violence. It’s not the whole pie, or most of it.

The good news here is that violence, in the long view, is going out of style. Stephen Pinker has documented this very carefully in his book “The Better Angels of our Nature”. Our very skeletons reflect this fact: today’s humans are generally speaking thinner-boned than those of even a few thousand years ago, especially in the skull. Carrying around the extra bone mass, as insurance against getting mortally injured from a blow to the head, just doesn’t seem to pay like it used to.

Pro-tip: if your comment needs to start with “Not to advocate violence against women” maybe you should rethink whatever it is you’re about to say.

4 palomino  May 27, 2014 6:01:36pm

re: #1 lostlakehiker

Not to advocate violence against women, or to argue that it shouldn’t be taken seriously…but the fact remains that more men are murdered every year than women, both in the US and in most other nations. The fact also remains that in this particular incident, four of the six murder victims were men.

Violence against women is an important, significant slice of the overall problem of violence. It’s not the whole pie, or most of it.

The good news here is that violence, in the long view, is going out of style. Stephen Pinker has documented this very carefully in his book “The Better Angels of our Nature”. Our very skeletons reflect this fact: today’s humans are generally speaking thinner-boned than those of even a few thousand years ago, especially in the skull. Carrying around the extra bone mass, as insurance against getting mortally injured from a blow to the head, just doesn’t seem to pay like it used to.

Yes, more men are murdered. But the percentage of murderers who are male is significantly higher than the percentage of victims who are male. So your stats don’t really prove much except that men are much more prone to violence than women, which we’ve already known for at least a few millennia.

Most violence against men is committed by other men. Most violence against women is also committed by other men. That’s the context you’re missing when women “complain” about violence against their gender.

5 lostlakehiker  May 27, 2014 6:06:28pm

The article was based on a mass-murder incident. The statistics in the article include, prominently, statistics about murder, and in particular, about murder sprees.

Yes, other levels of violence were also discussed, but you can’t really say that those were the main story.

Why did I post a “distraction”? Because the article itself began with an implicit claim that the incident it highlighted was primarily a matter of violence against women and a culture of violence against women.

One reason that men who go to kill women end up killing men as well is that those other men obstruct the killer if they can.

Ron Goldman.

And sometimes it’s the other way around.

Kim Munley.

We stand up for each other. No man is an island, nor is any woman. Violence against the one spreads out and engulfs the other. And this should not be forgotten. And this point is not a distraction.

6 klys  May 27, 2014 6:11:45pm

re: #5 lostlakehiker

The article was based on a mass-murder incident. The statistics in the article include, prominently, statistics about murder, and in particular, about murder sprees.

Yes, other levels of violence were also discussed, but you can’t really say that those were the main story.

Why did I post a “distraction”? Because the article itself began with an implicit claim that the incident it highlighted was primarily a matter of violence against women and a culture of violence against women.

One reason that men who go to kill women end up killing men as well is that those other men obstruct the killer if they can.

Ron Goldman.

And sometimes it’s the other way around.

Kim Munley.

We stand up for each other. No man is an island, nor is any woman. Violence against the one spreads out and engulfs the other. And this should not be forgotten. And this point is not a distraction.

Ok, so when the killer writes a 140 page manifesto about how this is all “women’s fault” and his rage at other men is primarily due to the fact that “other men got to have sex with women” (and I am paraphrasing here even with the quotations), dismissing those other statistics about “violence against women” as “not the main story” does count as taking it off target to me.

You have actually read up on this incident, right?

7 palomino  May 28, 2014 3:38:35pm

re: #5 lostlakehiker

The article was based on a mass-murder incident. The statistics in the article include, prominently, statistics about murder, and in particular, about murder sprees.

Yes, other levels of violence were also discussed, but you can’t really say that those were the main story.

Why did I post a “distraction”? Because the article itself began with an implicit claim that the incident it highlighted was primarily a matter of violence against women and a culture of violence against women.

One reason that men who go to kill women end up killing men as well is that those other men obstruct the killer if they can.

Ron Goldman.

And sometimes it’s the other way around.

Kim Munley.

We stand up for each other. No man is an island, nor is any woman. Violence against the one spreads out and engulfs the other. And this should not be forgotten. And this point is not a distraction.

Ron Goldman was killed 20 years ago, as an innocent bystander. He wasn’t the target of the enraged jealous ex-husband. So he doesn’t prove much of anything.

Point is quite simple: lots of angry men blame and target women in cases of homicide, rape, sexual assault, stalking, etc. The same isn’t true when you reverse the genders. Yes, wives do sometimes kill their husbands. But there is no epidemic of female violence towards males. There is clearly an epidemic of male violence toward females.

Ask yourself why women in bars so often go to the restroom in groups, while men almost never feel the need to do so. It’s because men don’t often have to worry about getting Ben Roethlisbergered in the bathroom.

You can try to throw out some equivalency argument. But it won’t fly, the statistics shoot it down.


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