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1 freetoken  Jun 5, 2014 3:24:49am

Among other problems with this essay is this:

First, just as in the past, these neo-colonialists are determined to impose their will on the peoples of Asia and …

This is painting “Asia” as a single monolith when it is anything but.

Also problematic is this:

As one farmer in a small Asian community so aptly put it, “When you say I need permission to cut my own trees, I have lost my right to my land.”

Property ownership may be understood differently in various cultures, but eventually ownership is neither eternal nor absolute. Having owned property in California it became clear that “owning” simply means have exclusive or first use, not absolute use, of the property. Here in America we have all sorts of national, state, and local laws and regulations that limit what “ownership” means.

What you do not want to accept is that ownership is not absolute, to repeat myself. Since we all share the same planet, and since the physical and biological systems on this planet are all interlinked, there is an overriding social, communal, responsibility that hangs over everybody.

2 iossarian  Jun 5, 2014 6:12:27am

re: #1 freetoken

What you do not want to accept is that ownership is not absolute, to repeat myself. Since we all share the same planet, and since the physical and biological systems on this planet are all interlinked, there is an overriding social, communal, responsibility that hangs over everybody.

This page is basically “regulation bad because leftism”.

3 The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 5, 2014 6:21:56am

Basically, people with traditional land rights—that is, people who live off an area of land but don’t have ownership in within the monetary economy—don’t have any right to the land they’ve lived on for generations. So a Yanomamo can’t protest when a beef farmer buys land he forages from the Brazilian government and turns into to pasture, because he doesn’t have a piece of paper—and coincidentally the Brazilian government just kind of incorporated his forest into their territory by fiat, and coincidentally claimed they have the right to sell it off and/or let people claim “undeveloped” land.

I mean, what really defines the “so-called indigenous people” is that someone built a country around them, and didn’t try and integrate them into the larger economic-political system because they lived a highly niche-specific life in the ass end of unhabit-able nowhere. Ever read any materials from actual-on-the-money colonial monographs? Spender and Gillen? WHR Rivers? Anthropologists went out and studied people not just for social science, but to help determine how they could fit into the schematic of empire. I’m being glib, but that’s a pretty good gloss of how the modern “indigenous peoples” end up as cultural isolates inside an developing nation: their subsistence/tech niche was specialized in a way that deterred both immigration/emigration, and it was cheaper to leave them alone than try and mess with them. The standard colonial approach was to treat these people as not-people, legally. Whether or not their culture had private property concepts wasn’t even an issue: you could take their stuff because you had the guns.

With decolonization, there’s the same interface problem…it’s too hard to bring infrastructure, and the material culture that’s practical in context doesn’t actually mesh with a modern education or labor system…so you limp along trying to create access, but prevent exploitation, because they’re citizens (sort of), and (sort of) part of the national community, so they have rights…rights they don’t have the education or cash or the outside-their-boxed-in world-experience to exercise like other citizens. It’s a very weird, frustrating area of policy discussion. So there ends up being a hole in the map of legal ownership where these people lead their lives boxed in. And what happens is that this blank space remains until someone finds something they want to monetize.

And I’m kind of amazed at the framing of this as “individual versus collective”…which is kind of surreal when the “individual” only gets to exercise ownership by appeal to the super-large, monopoly-of-violence-having government to claim ownership. It’s like the Wild West myth—pretending that The Cavalry wasn’t stomping holes in Indians so that cowboys could set up shop, that it was all rugged individual initiative.

4 SonofMises  Jun 5, 2014 6:33:21am

How devastatingly condescending for self-appointed Euro-greenie “guardians of the oppressed” to think they know what’s best for private property owners half a world away!
FPIC is a nothing but a thin veil for a Western-centric dismissive pat on the head for Asian businessmen and entrepreneurs.
Advocates of FPIC: “You have been exposed!”
Thanks, Mr. Wolinski!

5 BenWolinski  Jun 5, 2014 7:17:08am

re: #1 freetoken

The idea isn’t that property ownership is/should be absolute but rather the rules governing private property should be crafted by the citizens of their respective nations without the assistance of foreign “advisers” who have an agenda of their own.

To use your own example, your property in California was regulated under California state and US law. Those laws were, in turn, crafted by and for the people of the State of California, not by and for a foreign special interest group to serve that group’s agenda/ideology.

Your point about Asia being far from monolithic is well taken though. It should be noted that leftist NGOs, in the dubious tradition of hyenas everywhere, target poor nations with weak or corrupt governments. When an Asian nation has either a strong government (China) and/or a developed economy (Japan, S. Korea), the type of toxic foreign influence we see in nations like Indonesia is vastly curtailed.

6 The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 5, 2014 7:19:10am

re: #4 SonofMises

How devastatingly condescending for self-appointed Euro-greenie “guardians of the oppressed” to think they know what’s best for private property owners half a world away!
FPIC is a nothing but a thin veil for a Western-centric dismissive pat on the head for Asian businessmen and entrepreneurs.
Advocates of FPIC: “You have been exposed!”
Thanks, Mr. Wolinski!

Which Asian businessmen?
Which entrepreneurs?
Where?

Asian countries—India, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines actual have ancestral domain rights encoded in law for specific indigneous groups. So does Australia. Nobody made them do that.

There’s no “Greenie European Left” guiding this. It’s not Western-centric. It’s expressly a Not Western, Not Colonial attempt to (1) encode rights for people who aren’t fully assimilated such that they can use the law to defend themselves, rather than treat them as fauna. It is specifically the inverse of colonial practice, put into place by people dicked over by colonial practice.

And it’s still problematic as hell, in no small part because the government can pull land rights on their whim…which is what happens when there’s profit to be made. The whole article amounts “group rights don’t count, (even though group rights are specifically encoded by the government) hooray for radical redistribution. Because ENTREPRENEURS.”

It makes even less sense given that indigenous groups having been both vocal and violent about their lands rights since actual colonialism, and land rights protests…like the one that just went on in Brazil…occur without the magic hand of some NGO guiding them. Them being pissed off did not magically crop up; land rights issues routinely cause wars and skirmishes for centuries. The Indian Wars, the Mau Mau, the Commandante Marcos Zapatista fracas—does none of that ring a bell?

7 SonofMises  Jun 5, 2014 8:39:59am

Cher Fellow Commenters / Truth Seekers,

Let’s try to stay on point. Specifically, Mr. Wolinski, if I may para-phrase a bit, opined that FPIC egregiously constituted a new form of Western-centric and eco-agenda-driven interference with private property rights and control over the exercise of sovereignty that, in essence, constituted a new form of colonialism. Since FPIC restricts the free and legal use of private property, it amounts to the de facto creation of two classes of citizens (those who can benefit in its provisions and those who cannot) in the countries where it is adopted.

Please, Sr. Ghost of the Flea, consider these points:

- Regarding “ancestral rights encoded in the law,” in the case of Indonesia, au contraire. The Indonesian Constitution of 1945 (Undang-Undang Dasar/UUD45) expressly FORBIDS any special treatment for any class of citizen.

-Section X - Citizens and Residents
Article 26
(1) Citizens are those who are indigenous Indonesians and persons of foreign origin who are legalized as citizens in accordance with the law.

-Article 27
(1) All citizens shall have equal status before the law…

In the case of Indonesia, any implementation of special treatment for “indigenous” peoples, such as FPIC, would de facto amount to the establishment of a second class of citizens where there heretofore had been none. Strictly speaking, the concept of “indigenous” and FPIC is unconstitutional in Indonesia.

Furthermore, the move to enact such unconstitutional concepts is not originating from within Indonesia. These concepts were introduced by left-wing European NGOs who, through their local proxies, have been agitating the rural populace and fomenting civil unrest. This extra-territorial interference in the inner workings of a sovereign nation has, in at least one case, resulted in the murder of an innocent forestry worker.

In summary, the Western-centric concept of FPIC robs citizens of resource rich, developing countries of the potential economic benefits that flow from the opportunity to responsibly and legally develop their resources.

8 The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 5, 2014 8:52:55am

Has there been a later ruling than the May 17th, 2013 Supreme Court ruling that nullified government ownership of customary forests?

And how do you interpret article 18B of the constitution?

9 Charles Johnson  Jun 5, 2014 9:42:50am

“BenWolinski” and “SonofMises” are the same person, and they’re both kindly invited to fuck off. I really don’t appreciate this kind of bullshit.

10 Charles Johnson  Jun 5, 2014 9:43:34am

Look at this guy pretending to be two people.

Seriously, what is wrong with people who do this? Do they think they won’t be caught?

11 blueraven  Jun 5, 2014 11:19:15am

re: #10 Charles Johnson

Look at this guy pretending to be two people.

Seriously, what is wrong with people who do this? Do they think they won’t be caught?

shades of GG
sock puppets

12 [deleted]  Jun 5, 2014 11:37:36am
13 Charles Johnson  Jun 5, 2014 11:39:25am

And another sock puppet shows up.

14 jaunte  Jun 5, 2014 11:40:06am

Same smarmy writing voice.

15 The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 5, 2014 11:48:52am


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