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1 Charles Johnson  Jun 10, 2014 12:54:27pm

Yay, blockquotes! Thanks. :)

2 Rightwingconspirator  Jun 10, 2014 12:54:35pm

If this holds up, there will be an epic fight on at least 3 fronts. Teachers Unions, School system administrators and the legislature. Parents too but they just don’t have any clout.

3 Minor_L  Jun 10, 2014 4:19:36pm

It is almost impossible to terminate a tenured teacher in California. The decision is interesting in that it says, “why do non-teaching school employees have a much less protective termination process? Are they any less deserving of the property interest in their jobs?” The judge isn’t arguing that teachers shouldn’t get due process, just that they shouldn’t have a dismissal process that is so insanely overburdensome.

4 Amory Blaine  Jun 10, 2014 4:30:29pm

re: #3 Minor_L

Seriously? Almost impossible? Why are administrators hiring bad teachers anyway? Teachers need tenure because when school boards get stacked with creationists and other assorted teabaggers they need protection from them to teach reality. But hey teachers apparently don’t deserve protection in this country. The argument is total bullshit anyways. Poor people don’t learn because they have no fucking money, not because their teachers are bad.

5 Minor_L  Jun 10, 2014 4:49:46pm

re: #4 Amory Blaine

You obviously feel passionately about this, but that seems unnecessarily over the top. I’m sorry you disagree with me, but geez.

6 Amory Blaine  Jun 10, 2014 5:04:00pm

re: #5 Minor_L

Protection for teachers isn’t causing poor children to be under-educated. Teachers are fired everyday. Reality is, teachers will be fired for political reasons without protections. I’m curious if the judge feels similarly about lawyers and doctors as well.

Sorry if I came across as harsh.

7 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 10, 2014 6:48:38pm

Tenure is a vital part of being a teacher, sadly mostly to protect teachers from politics. It definitely has the side effect of making it hard to fire bad teachers. It also makes it hard to fire good teachers.

In a lot of place,s it is the good teachers who are going to get fired now, and replaced with bad teachers whose politics match that of the town.

This isn’t going to have a good effect. Weirdly, it is going to have the most negative effect out in the most conservative areas. More liberal places will be a lot less hurt by it.

8 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 10, 2014 7:06:28pm

This is a picture at a Rocketship charter school, by the way, a group that’s aggressively trying to move in on California.

Image: nbi6NFP.jpg

One teacher oversees that whole classroom, along with a lot of teacher’s aides. Mostly the kids just watch videos and do interactive stuff on the computer.

9 KerFuFFler  Jun 11, 2014 6:16:27am

I know that there are districts where teachers need protection from politics, but in my district that is really not an issue. We do have lots of extremely lousy and incompetent teachers. We also have some absolutely fantastic ones, but it really does BURN that it is so hard to dislodge the bad ones. My kids are in grad school and I still get annoyed recalling the epic failures of so many of their teachers in elementary and especially middle school! (I know, I should really get over this crap, but when someone messes with your kids we hates them forever…..)

It is true that teaching does not pay as well as it should and the tenure system is seen as an inducement to attract people to this career. I don’t think we should get rid of tenure, but it should not be next to impossible to get rid of teachers who are doing piss poor work.


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