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1 Charles Johnson  Jul 22, 2014 6:14:50pm

Great post, hawk of the law. It’s such a mess at this point, and the only common ground seems to be human misery.

2 _RememberTonyC  Jul 22, 2014 6:36:08pm

Well done …. the misery on both sides is terrible. I read a great piece the other day about how Israel’s enemies in the region see things through the French/Algerian lens where the French eventually high tailed it back home after the onslaught by the natives of Algeria. But the Israelis ARE home, so they’re not leaving like the French did in Algeria. Until their “neighbors” are willing to get that through their heads, this conflict will never end. It’s not the only problem, but it is a big one.

3 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 22, 2014 6:47:43pm

Sheesh I have had to unfollow & block so many #UniteBlue on Twitter. They have no idea what Israel should do that they won’t condemn, other than the Helen Thomas suggestion.

4 William Burns  Jul 23, 2014 4:31:24am

The Gazans will mourn their losses and curse Israel. Don’t kid yourself.

5 lawhawk  Jul 23, 2014 5:52:50am

re: #4 William Burns

I’m not kidding myself, but there is a growing sentiment in Gaza that Hamas is the cause of their woes, not Israel - or not solely Israel.

It’s the fact that Hamas is busy calling on Gazans to head to rooftops and stay in place while Israel calls on Gazans to move away from areas the IDF is about to hit.

It’s the fact that Hamas leaders are in underground bunkers, or calling the shots from Lebanon or Syria, while Gazans are the ones bleeding and taking the brunt of the attacks.

It’s the fact that Hamas used hundreds of thousands of tons of construction materials not to build civil infrastructure like sewers, roads, or community buildings like schools, but to build a dense network of bunkers and tunnels to infiltrate Israel; the tunnels between Gaza and Egypt are far more rudimentary while those entering Israel have been quite sophisticated.

It’s that Hamas shows a complete disregard for the misery it creates at every opportunity.

That’s beginning to sink in with Gazans.

6 ausador  Jul 23, 2014 10:39:10am

Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, Moshe Feiglin has published his idea for a solution. But I don’t think anyone other than RWNJ’s could possibly find it palatable…

My Outline for a Solution for Gaza: By Moshe Feiglin

1. Ultimatum - One warning from the Prime Minister of Israel to the enemy population, in which he announces that Israel is about to attack military targets in their area and urges those who are not involved and do not wish to be harmed to leave immediately. Sinai is not far from Gaza and they can leave. This will be the limit of Israel’s humanitarian efforts. Hamas may unconditionally surrender and prevent the attack.

2. Attack - Attack of the entire ‘target bank’ throughout the Gaza Strip with the IDF’s maximum force (and not a tiny fraction of it) with all the conventional means at its disposal. All the military and infrastructural targets will be attacked with no consideration for ‘human shields’ or ‘environmental damage’. It is enough that we are hitting exact targets and that we gave them advance warning.

3. Siege - Parallel to the above, a total siege on Gaza. Nothing will enter the Strip. Israel, however, will allow exit from Gaza. (Civilians may go to Sinai, fighters may surrender to IDF forces).

4. Defense - Any place from which Israel or Israel’s forces were attacked will be immediately attacked with full force and no consideration for ‘human shields’ or ‘environmental damage’.

5. Conquer - After the IDF will complete the softening of the targets with its aerial and long distance fire-power, it will send in infantry to conquer the entire Gaza Strip, using all the means necessary to minimize any harm to our soldiers, with no other considerations.

6. Elimination- The GSS and IDF will thoroughly eliminate all armed enemies from Gaza. The enemy population that is innocent of wrong-doing and separated itself from the armed terrorists will be treated in accordance with international law and will be allowed to leave. Israel will generously aid those who wish to leave.

7. Sovereignty - Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever. Liberation of parts of our land forever is the only thing that justifies endangering our soldiers in battle to capture land. Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel. The coastal train line will be extended, as soon as possible, to reach the length of the Gaza Strip. According to polls, most of the Arabs in Gaza wish to leave. Those who were not involved in anti-Israel activity will be offered a generous international emigration package. Those who choose to remain will receive permanent resident status. After a number of years of living in Israel and becoming accustomed to it, contingent on appropriate legislation in the Knesset and the authorization of the Minister of Interior on a case by case basis, those who personally accept upon themselves Israel’s rule, substance and way of life of the Jewish State in its Land, will be offered Israeli citizenship.

Rather than being a “solution” I think this is more likely to ensure that the conflict continues for at least another 70 years or so… :(

7 Eigth Immortal  Jul 23, 2014 10:50:23am

re: #6 ausador

Agreed. The honorable deputy speaker seems to be unaware the Egypt has sealed its own border with Gaza.

8 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 23, 2014 11:01:55am

re: #6 ausador

He’s a good reminder that a democratic process does not safeguard against extremism. That’s up to the citizens.

9 Ace-o-aces  Jul 23, 2014 11:15:58am

You know, Israelis are always saying that Palestinians lost the right to return to the homes they occupied in 1948 because they abandoned them during the Arab-Israeli war. Maybe they’re worried it will happen again, especially given opinions such as MK Feiglin’s.

10 Archangelus  Jul 23, 2014 11:17:04am

re: #6 ausador

Feiglin is essentially a modern-day Kahana, someone whose foray into Israeli politics came dangerously close to bringing ruin upon the Likud Party a few years ago (he’s been mostly marginalized as far as most are considered - deputy speaker is viewed as a very weak position). He’s such an Israeli right-wing extremist that even ‘normal’ Israeli RWNJs tend to hear him and go “whoa dude, that’s going too far”…

11 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 23, 2014 11:30:35am

re: #10 Archangelus

It’s a weak position, but he’s not alone in his extremism, and he helps to control the business of their legislative body. That someone that extreme is in any position of power makes Israel’s ability to say it can follow a peace process weaker.

12 lawhawk  Jul 23, 2014 1:19:09pm

This is the kind of advice that Hamas has been getting. Hamas would be damned if it accepted the prior ceasefires offered and accepted by Israel.

So, you’ve not only got Hamas getting bum advice, but you’ve got regional powers trying to exert their own influence on the outcome. You’ve got the Egyptians, who have been down this road before, the Saudis, Qataris, as well as the Russians and US. That’s even as all recognize the need to stop the bloodshed, they’ve yet to formulate a version of the fill-in-the-blanks that Hamas would agree to even in a short term deal.

It then comes as no surprise that Israel singles out Qatar for promoting terrorism (consider that Meshaal is living in comfort in Qatar after vacating Syria during that country’s ongoing civil war). That also explains why Hamas is getting the advice it is from al Jazeera (launched as a Qatari news outfit).

13 William Burns  Jul 23, 2014 2:28:36pm

Lawhawk, what is the evidence for this growing sentiment in Gaza against Hamas? Everything I’ve seen indicates that Hamas has actually grown more popular since the Israeli invasion.

14 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 23, 2014 4:34:09pm

re: #13 William Burns

Lawhawk, what is the evidence for this growing sentiment in Gaza against Hamas? Everything I’ve seen indicates that Hamas has actually grown more popular since the Israeli invasion.

It was growing more unpopular before the invasion. I don’t think you can really get accurate polls of the population right now.

15 William Burns  Jul 23, 2014 5:01:41pm

Well, if the Gazans are like most people, including the Israelis, when under attack they will rally around their leadership.

16 lawhawk  Jul 23, 2014 5:46:43pm

re: #13 William Burns

Looks like Hamas support has grown, despite all the casualties and people blaming them for the crisis in the first place. At least, that’s according to this particular poll.

17 William Burns  Jul 24, 2014 3:14:27am

The poll you quote looks like a poll of West Bankers, though, not Gazans.


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