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1 sharonsj  Aug 7, 2014 1:00:19pm

You forgot to add that the rocket launcher was also next to a mosque and a school. The Indian news team was afraid that if Hamas learned about the video they’d be attacked, so they packed up and left and didn’t release it until they were safe.

I can’t wait to see if the mainstream media covers this story…I bet they won’t. Everyone claims that the media is biased toward Israel, but it’s not true.

2 Romantic Heretic  Aug 7, 2014 1:49:17pm

Um, not supporting what Hamas is doing, but where should they set up those sites?

Gaza is a very crowded piece of real estate which makes it difficult to find a spot that isn’t close to a civilian target. Also, they want those sites to be hard to find and difficult to hit. That’s how wars are fought. You don’t make it easy for your opponents.

I reiterate; I do not support Hamas doing what they are doing. But I know enough about warfare to understand the strategy and tactics behind their actions.

3 _RememberTonyC  Aug 7, 2014 3:07:15pm

Wow … if you’re not supporting hamas, you have a funny way of showing it. If you’re not supporting hamas, you should say something like “they shouldn’t be shooting rockets from civilian areas at all.” Because, you know, they’re TERRORISTS. But maybe you thought they were brave resistance fighters, even though they RUN Gaza.

4 CuriousLurker  Aug 7, 2014 5:35:08pm

re: #3 _RememberTonyC

That’s absurd. He said TWICE that he didn’t approve of what they’re doing and he’s a long-time member in good standing. This kind of hyperbolic, insulting bullshit doesn’t help Israel at all-—the only thing it does is make you look foolish & spiteful.

5 palomino  Aug 7, 2014 5:51:55pm

re: #3 _RememberTonyC

Wow … if you’re not supporting hamas, you have a funny way of showing it. If you’re not supporting hamas, you should say something like “they shouldn’t be shooting rockets from civilian areas at all.” Because, you know, they’re TERRORISTS. But maybe you thought they were brave resistance fighters, even though they RUN Gaza.

Yeah, I guess he should apologize for not saying exactly what you want him to.

Why would you find a logical and dispassionate explanation of urban guerilla terrorist tactics to be so offensive? Maybe it’s best to save accusations of pro-Hamas for people who actually say and do things which are demonstrably pro-Hamas.

6 Romantic Heretic  Aug 7, 2014 8:06:59pm

re: #3 _RememberTonyC

SMH.

This is why I rarely comment on the Middle East. It’s reduced so many people to a Manichien mindset that there is no longer a way to speak dispassionately about it.

7 Skandal  Aug 7, 2014 8:39:02pm

re: #2 Romantic Heretic

I know you’re not pro-Hamas.

It’s true that their tactics are to fire rockets from crowded areas for the sole purpose of drawing return fire knowing what the result will be.
However:
Gaza is only partly urban.

8 Romantic Heretic  Aug 7, 2014 9:10:48pm

Compared to Israel and most of the world, it is heavily urbanized. But why would Hamas set up their launchers anywhere but populated areas? It’s not just to maximize casualties, that can then be blamed on Israel, but to make the job of spotting those launchers harder.

A launcher set up in an open area against an opponent with modern sensors might as well paint a hundred yard bullseye around itself. Which considering what a huge amount of resources, from Hamas’s point of view, makes the investment wasteful.

Hamas may be evil but they’re not stupid.

9 _RememberTonyC  Aug 8, 2014 4:07:15am

You guys really are unbelievable … You can say you don’t support hamas, yet in the same breath you essentially say “what else are they supposed to do?” when it comes to their murderous tactics. Spare me your lectures about right and wrong …. We will never see things the same way … And that is fine by me.

10 Skandal  Aug 8, 2014 6:07:33am

re: #8 Romantic Heretic

Nonetheless, they do have plenty of open spaces that are non-urbanized from which to fire their rockets. They choose not to for two reasons:

1. in order to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties;
and
2. in order to minimize retaliatory fire from the IDF.

In other words, the frequent claim that

“Gaza is a very crowded piece of real estate which makes it difficult to find a spot that isn’t close to a civilian target”

is absolutely false.

11 Romantic Heretic  Aug 8, 2014 7:34:07am

I see I am going to have to be quite precise in my English in order to avoid accusations of being an anti-Semite.

So I shall preface all my previous statements with this caveat: Given the strategic, tactical and logistical situation that Hamas finds itself in regards to its foolish conflict with Israel…

Not that it matters where this situation is concerned. The solution lies not in the military field or the political field. We’re dealing with human nature here, and as one writer pointed out: human beings are social animals which means we are bred by evolution for group murder.

12 CuriousLurker  Aug 8, 2014 9:53:45am

re: #9 _RememberTonyC

*SIGH* I give up on this bullshit.

Go ahead, keep killing each other and berating anyone who doesn’t phrase things in exactly the order and with the precise wording one side or the other prefers. Accuse people of dishonesty, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, supporting terrorism, apartheid, genocide or whatever other ridiculously hyperbolic, inflammatory crap the partisans toss around.

Carry on with your framing, talking points, finger pointing, and pretending all the blame lies on the other side—whichever side isn’t yours—because yours is righteous and good and theirs is evil. And keep expecting people who aren’t directly involved in your dispute to feel as strongly as you do about it. I mean, that strategy has obviously worked SO well to solve the problem up until now, right?

Bottom line: It’s not my stupid fight. I didn’t create the problem. No one in my family, no one that I love, is going to suffer or die because of it. You guys are so blinded by your hatred for each other than you can’t see what your behavior looks like to the rest of the people on the planet, most of whom have no dog in this fight and have their own problems to deal with.

Oh, and, RTC—remember that shitty, racist Golda Meir quote you linked to a while back? In case you haven’t noticed, it’s not only Arabs’ children that are dying from the hate. You might want to keep that in mind.

13 wrenchwench  Aug 8, 2014 10:09:00am

re: #9 _RememberTonyC

You guys really are unbelievable … You can say you don’t support hamas, yet in the same breath you essentially say “what else are they supposed to do?” when it comes to their murderous tactics. Spare me your lectures about right and wrong …. We will never see things the same way … And that is fine by me.

You had to change the words so your objection could remain the same. You are arguing with nobody here, because nobody here said they support Hamas. You need to change your argument to keep it honest.

14 CuriousLurker  Aug 8, 2014 11:04:17am

re: #13 wrenchwench

You had to change the words so your objection could remain the same. You are arguing with nobody here, because nobody here said they support Hamas. You need to change your argument to keep it honest.

THIS. Anyone who expressed support for Hamas here would be down-dinged into next week, and would probably be in danger of being banned.

15 _RememberTonyC  Aug 9, 2014 6:07:34am

re: #12 CuriousLurker

That “shitty racist quote” from Golda Meir is true. There is no moral equivalence here, in spite of what many here think. One side wants peace, the other wants conflict. So sorry that isn’t obvious to you. Those who set the bar so low for the Palestinians do them no favors because they allow them to think they can “negotiate” without giving anything in return. In a sense, it is ONLY the Israelis who are requiring them to act with maturity. After all, until the Palestinians understand that negotiation also requires them to give something up, they will make no gains. And sadly, it very much looks like that is the dead end they are driving their people towards.

16 _RememberTonyC  Aug 9, 2014 6:12:35am

re: #13 wrenchwench

You are guilty of changing my words too, so jump down from YOUR high horse. I said if he doesn’t support hamas, he has a “funny way of showing it.” For those like you who like to bash those like me, I find your hypocrisy amusing. I did not say he SUPPORTS hamas, I said if he does not, he has a FUNNY WAY OF SHOWING IT.

17 CuriousLurker  Aug 9, 2014 12:34:46pm

re: #15 _RememberTonyC

re: #16 _RememberTonyC

SMH

18 wrenchwench  Aug 9, 2014 12:36:50pm

re: #16 _RememberTonyC

You are guilty of changing my words too, so jump down from YOUR high horse. I said if he doesn’t support hamas, he has a “funny way of showing it.” For those like you who like to bash those like me, I find your hypocrisy amusing. I did not say he SUPPORTS hamas, I said if he does not, he has a FUNNY WAY OF SHOWING IT.

I don’t ‘like to bash’ you. I also don’t like to see you post garbage as you did in #15. You’re quite the bigot. You seem to know exactly what ‘the Palestinians’ think. All of them.

When a person says “If you [whatever]…. then you have a funny way of showing it”, it distinctly implies you believe they do not [whatever]. For you to pretend that is not the case is just more of your dishonest way of arguing.

You have a valid point of view, but lately you are not able to argue it using facts or just stating your beliefs. You prefer to demonize and vilify your intellectual opponents. Then you pretend that has been done to you.

I’ll stick to downdings. If you want an explanation or an argument, you’ll have to ask.

19 palomino  Aug 10, 2014 3:00:35am

re: #16 _RememberTonyC

You are guilty of changing my words too, so jump down from YOUR high horse. I said if he doesn’t support hamas, he has a “funny way of showing it.” For those like you who like to bash those like me, I find your hypocrisy amusing. I did not say he SUPPORTS hamas, I said if he does not, he has a FUNNY WAY OF SHOWING IT.

What the fuck do you want? No one here supports Hamas, and everyone here agrees they’re a terrorist organization. And yet, somehow, you’ve found a way to be outraged over that.

If it’s absolute ideological purity that you need, tough shit—-you’re in the wrong place.


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