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6 comments

1 sffilk  Sep 9, 2014 6:45:19am

I have friends and acquaintances who live there and amongst them, the general consensus is to vote Yes.

2 Dr Lizardo  Sep 9, 2014 9:05:16am

re: #1 sffilk

One thing I’m picking up is that Westminster crowd is starting to panic. PM Cameron, Labour leader Milliband and LibDem leader Clegg have all agreed to cancel tomorrow’s PM Question Time and head up north to plead with the Scots to stay.

Smells like…….desperation. And that’s what it is. Most likely, when they allowed this referendum, the Westminster crowd was figuring it didn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of passing.

Now that it looks like it’s actually got a damned good chance of passing, however, it’s dawning on them that they’ve badly underestimated the extent of Scottish nationalism.

If the ‘Yes’ vote prevails and Scotland does indeed vote for independence, there’s a good chance PM Cameron could face a no-confidence vote - I’ve been reading the Tories might rebel against him and force a no-confidence vote.

Choppy waters ahead in politics in that “sceptred isle”, I’d say.

3 Romantic Heretic  Sep 9, 2014 9:44:58am

I was reading something this morning that tells me independence might not be as popular as thought. A person who lives there, an American married to a Scot of American descent, had a couple of interesting things to say.

The first was concerning her visa. No one knows if she’ll be allowed to stay after independence. She says she keeps being told, “It will be worked out after.” That’s followed with the observation, “We’re being told a lot of things will ‘be worked out after.’”

That’s a bit worrisome.

The other is that she has noticed rather sharp geographical divides in the support for independence. In the Islands they are strongly against it. In The Highlands independence is supported but there is a lot of doubt. It seems that only in Glasgow is support strong.

This leads me to believe this might be less about independence than a power grab from London to Glasgow. It also tells me I should take a close look at what ‘independence’ actually involves.

My doubt has to do with the several attempts at Quebec independence here in Canada. As near as I could tell Quebec independence had more to do with power than actual independence. What the separatistes wanted was all the good parts and the power, while leaving things like currency and defence to Canada, although they would no longer be paying taxes for those things.

They also wanted the money that comes from the rest of Canada. Quebec is a ‘have not’ province and receives large amounts of money from the federal government in the same way many Red States are supported by Blue States.

That’s a really strange type of independence.

The article I’m mentioning also noted the ancient aphorism, “That the only thing that holds the Scots together is hatred of the English.” Will an independent Scotland stay together without the English as a glue?

As near as I can tell the push for Scottish independence is much like the push for Quebec independence. Both sides indulge in extreme hyperbole while the actual thoughts about how it will work and what could go wrong is buried under the raw emotion engendered by this push.

4 sffilk  Sep 9, 2014 10:31:35am

re: #2 Dr Lizardo

One thing I’m picking up is that Westminster crowd is starting to panic. PM Cameron, Labour leader Milliband and LibDem leader Clegg have all agreed to cancel tomorrow’s PM Question Time and head up north to plead with the Scots to stay.

Smells like…….desperation. And that’s what it is. Most likely, when they allowed this referendum, the Westminster crowd was figuring it didn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of passing.

Now that it looks like it’s actually got a damned good chance of passing, however, it’s dawning on them that they’ve badly underestimated the extent of Scottish nationalism.

If the ‘Yes’ vote prevails and Scotland does indeed vote for independence, there’s a good chance PM Cameron could face a no-confidence vote - I’ve been reading the Tories might rebel against him and force a no-confidence vote.

Choppy waters ahead in politics in that “sceptred isle”, I’d say.

I did notice that it appears what you said about the Westminster crowd is true. I haven’t heard/read/noticed anything about a vote of no confidence on Cameron. As far as the Scottish nationalism, I don’t know if anyone estimated the extent of it. I think it’s more a case of let’s wait and see.

5 lostlakehiker  Sep 9, 2014 12:35:16pm

I think Scottish independence would be a terrible mistake. Things need to be looked at on a longer time scale than who’s in power just now in London. Or even how big London is right now.

Scotland is a small and remote place. Her greatness, and she has a history of accomplishing far more than her numbers would suggest, derives in considerable measure from her long association with England.

Split off into a separate nation, those ties would erode. Her natural resource wealth would become a larger fraction of her overall income, and the history of nations whose prime source of income is the sale of natural resources has shown a bad trend. The capital city gets richer, the people get poorer, and corruption becomes universal and brazen.

6 The War TARDIS  Sep 9, 2014 1:47:24pm

I’m torn on this one.

On one hand, I don’t want the UK to lose the security council seat, and have them replaced, especially if by Germany, with how much leeway they give Russia.

On the other hand, England, which makes up most of the UK, is having so truly toxic and nasty social and political trends popping up. Scotland has good reason to not be dragged down by that. Denmark has already offered immediate membership in the Nordic Council. Why not break for it.

Amazing what one week on Prozac will do.


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