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1 William Barnett-Lewis  Oct 1, 2014 5:45:48pm

This is a bad bad mistake that will force anyone owning guns to avoid seeking any kind of psychiatric assistance.

This is, to be sure, a press release but I am familiar with the people involved. I’ll allow his words to speak for me in this instance:

Liberal Gun Owners Association Warns New Law is a Dangerous Violation of Civil Liberties

SACRAMENTO, October 1, 2014 - The Liberal Gun Owners Association (LGOA) called the signing of AB 1014 (gun restraining orders) by California Governor Jerry Brown a dangerous violation of civil liberties.

“Law-abiding gun owners will now fear seeking help from family members and mental health professionals, and have yet another reason to put an attorney on speed-dial,” said Wooten.

Starting in 2015, California gun owners who seek help for mental health issues from medical professionals or even family members can their homes searched by law enforcement and a simple innocuous statement like, I’ve been depressed since my dog died, can quickly thrust them into a criminal court proceeding.

“Under this new law, if you’re suspected by your aunt of being depressed, you have fewer rights than if the police suspected you of murder,” said Wooten. “A murder suspect only appears before a judge when charged with a crime, is innocent until proven guilty and is guaranteed a trial by jury. But under AB 1014, a family member can have the police search your home and drag you before a criminal judge based on hearsay evidence. In fact, there doesn’t even have to be any proof you actually own a gun for this to happen.”

AB1014 is modeled on a Connecticut law that was in place before the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting took place. That law didn’t prevent that tragedy and may have contributed the self-imposed isolation of the Lanza family.

The Liberal Gun Owners Association (LGOA) is a California nonprofit advocating for the rights of gun owners, from a leftist perspective. LGOA President, Eric Wooten, was a registered lobbyist and liberal activist in Sacramento for more than a decade. For more information, see lgoa.org or our affiliated comrades at theliberalgunclub.org.

How long till the first false accusation happens? How long till people stop seeing their therapists to avoid being accused?

All I can say is that California just became a more dangerous place to live.

2 klys  Oct 1, 2014 5:58:14pm

re: #1 William Barnett-Lewis

Umm. I’ve actually read the bill. Have you? Or just the press release?

3 William Barnett-Lewis  Oct 1, 2014 6:10:25pm

re: #2 klys

Umm. I’ve actually read the bill. Have you? Or just the press release?

I’ve read it. It’s a very bad piece of well meaning twaddle that will drive people away from getting help. Just as the basis of it did in Connecticut.

4 klys  Oct 1, 2014 6:10:58pm

re: #3 William Barnett-Lewis

I’ve read it. It’s a very bad piece of well meaning twaddle that will drive people away from getting help. Just as the basis of it did in Connecticut.

[citation needed]

5 klys  Oct 1, 2014 6:15:59pm

Look, the reality is that some people should not have access to guns when they are presenting as a threat to either themselves or others.

This bill actually attempted to address that issue.

The criteria required to get to that point is a little more than having “your aunt overhear you say that you’ve been depressed since your dog died.” Just like imposing a 5150 hold takes a little more doing as well.

I look forward to hearing your suggestion for an alternative?

6 William Barnett-Lewis  Oct 1, 2014 6:22:27pm

From AB1014 as enrolled:

CHAPTER 3. EX PARTE GUN VIOLENCE RESTRAINING ORDER

18150. (a) (1) An immediate family member of a person or a law
enforcement officer may file a petition requesting that the court
issue an ex parte gun violence restraining order enjoining the
subject of the petition from having in his or her custody or control,
owning, purchasing, possessing, or receiving a firearm or
ammunition.
(2) For purposes of this subdivision, “immediate family member”
has the same meaning as in paragraph (3) of subdivision (b) of
Section 422.4.
(b) A court may issue an ex parte gun violence restraining order
if the petition, supported by an affidavit made in writing and signed
by the petitioner under oath, or an oral statement taken pursuant to
paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section 18155, and any
additional information provided to the court shows that there is a
substantial
likelihood that both of the following are true:
(1) The subject of the petition poses a significant danger, in the
near future, of personal injury to himself, herself, or another by
having in his or her custody or control, owning, purchasing,
possessing, or receiving a firearm as determined by considering the
factors listed in Section 18155.
(2) An ex parte gun violence restraining order is necessary to
prevent personal injury to the subject of the petition or another
because less restrictive alternatives either have been tried and
found to be ineffective, or are inadequate or inappropriate for the
circumstances of the subject of the petition.
(c) An affidavit supporting a petition for the issuance of an ex
parte gun violence restraining order shall set forth the facts
tending to establish the grounds of the petition, or the reason for
believing that they exist.
(d) An ex parte order under this chapter shall be issued or denied
on the same day that the petition is submitted to the court, unless
the petition is filed too late in the day to permit effective review,
in which case the order shall be issued or denied on the next day of
judicial business in sufficient time for the order to be filed that
day with the clerk of the court.

All I have to do is say Uncle Joe is crazy and the courts will presume guilt.

7 klys  Oct 1, 2014 6:24:39pm

re: #6 William Barnett-Lewis

From AB1014 as enrolled:

All I have to do is say Uncle Joe is crazy and the courts will presume guilt.

That’s why it’s so easy to get someone involuntarily committed to the hospital because you believe they’re going to harm themselves, you know.

///

8 William Barnett-Lewis  Oct 1, 2014 6:34:29pm

That’s how this should be. But it’s not with this bill. An Oral Statement by the petitioner is sufficient to grant the order. This is going to be a devastating weapon in divorces and other family law circumstances.

9 klys  Oct 1, 2014 7:42:24pm

I was going to reply but it’s not worth it.

10 goddamnedfrank  Oct 1, 2014 8:05:02pm

re: #8 William Barnett-Lewis

That’s how this should be. But it’s not with this bill. An Oral Statement by the petitioner is sufficient to grant the order. This is going to be a devastating weapon in divorces and other family law circumstances.

That’s kind of a gross simplification. The statement has to show a “substantial likelihood” that the person is a danger to themselves or others and that a restraining order needs to be granted “because less restrictive alternatives either have been tried and found to be ineffective, or are inadequate or inappropriate for the circumstances of the subject of the petition.”

In practice the second part is actually a big hurdle, the petitioner has to make a convincing case for why alternative methods of dealing with the threat the subject poses have either failed or can’t possibly work.

11 Romantic Heretic  Oct 2, 2014 6:15:58am

re: #1 William Barnett-Lewis

Having reviewed your responses and the bill I am still unclear on what your point is. Are you saying that the right to bear arms is more important than making it hard for psychotics and sadists to kill large numbers of people?

I’m so glad I live in Canada. This sort of religious argument is impossible up here.

12 Rightwingconspirator  Oct 2, 2014 6:18:49am

Well this is up to the state to run well. If this gets abused there will be consequences in court and the legislature.


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