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1 HappyWarrior  Oct 29, 2014 8:23:26am

That’s because conservatism especially Walker’s brand is a divisive brand designed specifically to divide people.

2 lostlakehiker  Oct 29, 2014 8:52:55am

Oh? Any politics whatsoever is divisive. Some people will vote for one candidate, others for the other.

In Walker’s case, the main fight was over whether the teacher’s union would enjoy wages and benefits that were out of line with what people of comparable ability and education earned in the private sector in Wisconsin.

Their wings have been clipped but they still have good jobs and good pay. And Wisconsin’s economy has improved.

In California, a judge has ruled that teacher tenure as it works in CA shocks the conscience and is unconstitutional because it works against minorities. (Along with everybody else, but particularly against minorities.) And this is a liberal judge. In Connecticut, another Democrat has successfully bucked the public employee unions on the question of pension benefits etc, arguing that those benefits were out of line with what the state could afford.

Democrats are slow to the realization that public employee unions have captured enough of the government machinery in some of the states they run that the people who in theory represent the state and who in theory have a duty to try to strike the best bargain they can for the state, in practice just give away the store because they owe their election to the unions. But that’s the problem, and it’s widespread, and Walker is not the only reformer and Republicans are not the only reformers.

3 gwangung  Oct 29, 2014 10:16:57am

Actually, you might have it backwards: public unions is where ALL employees’ pensions should be. Given the hollowing out of the middle class, I think the private sector is out of whack.

4 nines09  Oct 29, 2014 10:17:35am

re: #2 lostlakehiker

Sure. All the same. Right. Walker is a tool and a puppet to interests that do not serve his constituency. So a “Democrat” screws people and that proves what? That the Republicans are right? Some observation.What is the reality of Unions is that people died to organize, and if the deck was not stacked against the workers, regardless of which worker, the Unions would have never been successful. Promises made, just like insurance companies walking and getting away with screwing policy holders, and broken, serve who? Is it you? Me? Cut your own throat, save the masters time.

5 lostlakehiker  Oct 29, 2014 10:53:26am

re: #3 gwangung

Actually, you might have it backwards: public unions is where ALL employees’ pensions should be. Given the hollowing out of the middle class, I think the private sector is out of whack.

Public unions get their outsized benefits through taxes levied on those who do better work for less. The hollowing out of the middle class is merely accelerated by this jacking up of taxes in a reverse Robin Hood. Look at Bell, CA for an extreme example.

As with all schemes that concentrate benefits to the few at the expense of the many, this one cannot be made universal.

6 lostlakehiker  Oct 29, 2014 11:03:11am

re: #4 nines09

Sure. All the same. Right. Walker is a tool and a puppet to interests that do not serve his constituency. So a “Democrat” screws people and that proves what? That the Republicans are right? Some observation.What is the reality of Unions is that people died to organize, and if the deck was not stacked against the workers, regardless of which worker, the Unions would have never been successful. Promises made, just like insurance companies walking and getting away with screwing policy holders, and broken, serve who? Is it you? Me? Cut your own throat, save the masters time.

You deal blows to a straw man when you defend unions in general. I too think they have a place and real value. Unions that negotiate (or fight, depending) with private corporations are an entirely different story. Such unions stand no chance of gaining effective control of the guys who sit on the other side of the table when they negotiate pay and benefits. They can’t deal themselves a sweet deal, left hand shaking right. That’s what’s different about private unions.

Without even the possibility of private unions, corporations would be (and were, back in the bad old days) in a too powerful position, able to have their own way and nobody talking back. To some extent, they still are. What’s this with making workers stand by, ready to be called in for a 2 hour stint any time the employer wishes, for instance?

7 nines09  Oct 29, 2014 12:02:53pm

re: #6 lostlakehiker

Nothing is perfect. I would prefer to have the ability to negotiate, as opposed to being tossed scraps. I worked both in and out of Union shops and fleets. If you think that the deal somehow is no better with representation you have not been “on the floor” so to speak. Both sides make deals and protect each other in a symbiotic way. Private or Public Unions are ultimately a better deal for the workers in general and regardless of whatever you wish to think are being throttled daily by the same people who have looted S&L, mortgages, pensions, and would love to get their hands on Social Security. If you saw the shit people put up with living from hand to mouth without a voice and a company that looks at you as if you are tissue, I think you might have a different attitude. Welders in my area are told they can only be paid 12 bucks an hour, and that is at a shop which was busted years back and now is controlled by out of state interests. My company, which had Union and non-Union factories was sold to a British holding company and treated like a pinball machine. The shit hit the fan in 2007, and we was closeted and sold for scrap.The bad old days are here again and have been for the last 40 years, slowly emanating outward from a manufacturing base that was gutted and a workforce that was lied to and locked out. People like Walker are the problem. All I see is ignorance being touted as wisdom. Close the pools while you’re at it. Can’t afford the playground. Benefits? Living wage? Security? Respect?
Being on call? Horrible Union, huh? At better wages and benefits, I’ll take it.


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