Pages

Jump to bottom

7 comments

1 No Country For Old Haters  Dec 9, 2014 8:59:07am

Wouldn’t it be better to prosecute everyone who ordered or engaged in torture? We validate Anti-American sentiment when we protect the evil people among us and in our leadership.

2 Shiplord Kirel  Dec 9, 2014 9:23:28am

NO. A pardon does not establish that the pardoned acts are illegal. That would make it equivalent to law, which it is not. At best it would only convey that Obama thinks torture is illegal, which is scarcely in doubt.

3 Lumberhead  Dec 9, 2014 9:40:35am

FTA:

Pardons would make clear that crimes were committed; that the individuals who authorized and committed torture were indeed criminals

Because of the above, it is politically impossible for this to happen. I don’t think there is still the political will among the Democrats in office to hold anyone accountable for torture and have the inevitable fight that will ensue. Perhaps when he first took office or if the current political atmosphere wasn’t so toxic.

4 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 9, 2014 9:56:45am

re: #2 Shiplord Kirel

That was initially my reaction. Then I read through carefully and really considered the source. I think he may be right, the obvious alternative being nothing ever happens under the law at all. .

5 garzooma  Dec 9, 2014 11:47:30am

re: #2 Shiplord Kirel

At best it would only convey that Obama thinks torture is illegal, which is scarcely in doubt.

Andrew Sullivan, for one, feels it’s at least somewhat in doubt:

1.24 pm. Even now, Obama’s cowardice is gob-smacking:

Peter Baker ✔ @peterbakernyt
Follow
Obama official: White House won’t take sides between CIA, which says interrogations worked, and Senate, which says they didn’t.

You mean: they cannot read the report? There are not two sides. The evidence that the interrogations gave us nothing that wasn’t otherwise available is … the CIA’s own assessment. That’s why this report is so conclusive. The CIA itself says the torture didn’t work! And now it claims otherwise. This is a dispute between the CIA and the CIA.

6 WhatEVs  Dec 9, 2014 1:35:01pm

The problem, per the article, is that the statute of limitations has run out so no prosecutions could take place, even if anyone had the desire to do so.

By pardoning all involved, it would indicate that what was done was wrong and illegal. And it is something over nothing at all. And it might (doubtfully) stop war hawks and those who love shit like this (Yes, it is Yoo I am looking at) from doing it again and again.

7 goddamnedfrank  Dec 9, 2014 1:57:56pm

re: #2 Shiplord Kirel

NO. A pardon does not establish that the pardoned acts are illegal.

Yeah, actually it kind of does. See Burdick v. United States.

-A pardoned man must introduce the pardon into court proceedings, otherwise the pardon must be disregarded by the court.

-To do this, the pardoned man must accept the pardon. If a pardon is rejected, it cannot be forced upon its subject.

-A pardon carries an “imputation of guilt”, and accepting a pardon is “an admission of guilt”.

Burdick specifically said the following:

That a pardon by its mere issue has automatic effect resistless by him to whom it is tendered, forcing upon him by mere executive power whatever consequences it may have or however he may regard it, which seems to be the contention of the government in the case at bar, was rejected by the court with particularity and emphasis. The decision is unmistakable. A pardon was denominated as the ‘private’ act, the ‘private deed,’ of the executive magistrate, and the denomination was advisedly selected to mark the incompleteness of the act or deed without its acceptance.

Indeed, the grace of a pardon, though good its intention, may be only in pretense or seeming; in pretense, as having purpose not moving from the individual to whom it is offered; in seeming, as involving consequences of even greater disgrace than those from which it purports to relieve. Circumstances may be made to bring innocence under the penalties of the law. If so brought, escape by [236 U.S. 79, 91] confession of guilt implied in the acceptance of a pardon may be rejected,- preferring to be the victim of the law rather than its acknowledged transgressor,-preferring death even to such certain infamy. This, at least theoretically, is a right, and a right is often best tested in its extreme. ‘It may be supposed,’ the court said in United States v. Wilson, ‘that no being condemned to death would reject a pardon; but the rule must be the same in capital cases and in misdemeanors. A pardon may be conditional; and the condition may be more objectionable than the punishment inflicted by the judgment.’

Gerald Ford famously kept a copy of the Burdick decision with him in order to prove to people that Nixon’s acceptance of the pardon Ford issued was an implicit admission of guilt.

This is also why a pardon would never work, Bush would have to accept it for it to take effect, and he would never, ever do that because of this established legal precedent.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201129Saturday was limited to some light and general work, owing to an early morning 16 mile run.We (well she) painted another 25% of the deck. Almost done for the first coat.Then there will be a ton of touch up and ...
dangerman
2 hours, 7 minutes ago
Views: 52 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
Tweets: 0 •
The Big Moon - Why Director/Editor - Jonjo LoweProducer - Rosie BrearDoP - Alistair LittleCinema 4D Animation - Jay DarlingtonGrade - Myles Bevan @ Time Based ArtsEdit/FX Assistant - Carina EtaeCollage Design Assist - Bex LiuChoreography - Grace Nicol Special thanks - Thrds Studio, ...
Thanos
1 day, 23 hours ago
Views: 276 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Deep Sea Diver - Impossible Weight (Studio Video) “Impossible Weight” off Deep Sea Diver’s new album 'Impossible Weight' out now. Filmed during the recording of Impossible Weight at Hall of Justice in Seattle WA. STREAM / BUY "Impossible Weight" here smarturl.it WATCH OFFICAL MUSIC VIDEO HERE : ...
Thanos
6 days, 3 hours ago
Views: 527 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Eddie Vedder - Matter of Time (Official Music Video) The official music video for "Matter of Time" by Eddie Vedder. Written for everyone worldwide afflicted with Epidermolysis Bullosa (EB). To help fund research aimed at treating and curing EB, please donate to the EB Research Partnership: ebresearch.org “Matter ...
Thanos
6 days, 16 hours ago
Views: 587 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 2 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201122 Saturday was general maintenance around the place.Mowing, weed whacking, palm tree trimming, etc.Nothing picture worthy or really, even pond related. Sunday was more rain. We really were lucky for that first year. Not one Sunday did we get rained ...
dangerman
1 week ago
Views: 635 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
Nduduzo Makhathini - UmlothaMusic video by Nduduzo Makhathini performing Umlotha. © 2020 Universal Music (Pty) Ltd South Africa vevo.ly
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 813 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 7 •
Brian Eno - Decline and Fall (From ‘O Nome Da Morte’) The official music video for "Decline and Fall”, a track from the new album “Film Music 1976 - 2020”, is a cinematic collaboration between Brian Eno and acclaimed Brazilian film director Henrique Goldman which contemplates rain and fire, fiction ...
Thanos
1 week, 6 days ago
Views: 1,307 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Brian Eno - Like I Was a Spectator 'Like I Was A Spectator', a brand new track by Brian Eno with Daniel Lanois and Roger Eno from ‘Apollo – Atmospheres & Soundtracks – Extended Edition’. The video was created using rare N.A.S.A. footage.Order now: brianeno.lnk.to Follow Brian ...
Thanos
1 week, 6 days ago
Views: 1,031 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201115After two really sunny and swell days since Eta left, Saturday was a mix of mostly sun and a bit of rain.We still managed to be really productive both days anyway. Got all the lava rock washed and shoveled into ...
dangerman
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Views: 1,252 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 6
Tweets: 0 •
Michael Kiwanuka - Solid Ground (Live at the V&A) Listen to the Mercury Prize winning album ’KIWANUKA' now: michaelkiwanuka.lnk.to Michael Kiwanuka performing Solid Ground taken from the Mercury Prize winning album 'KIWANUKA' live at the Victoria & Albert museum in London. Sign up to Michael's mailing list: michaelkiwanuka.lnk.toFollow ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 2 days ago
Views: 1,307 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •