Pages

Jump to bottom

11 comments

1
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 23, 2015 • 8:34:05am

The system is not broken. The system is working as intended. Why do you think anybody in charge wants to change it?

2
lawhawk  Jul 23, 2015 • 8:56:43am

re: #1 Aunty Entity Dragon

The system is not broken. The system is working as intended. Why do you think anybody in charge wants to change it?

Yes, the old saw is that the system isn’t broken. It’s fixed. It’s working precisely in the way intended.

There are some in charge that want to see things changed because the methods used in policing and police-civilian interactions are resulting in far too many people dead and injured, and it costs municipalities a ton of money. It costs them not only for incarcerations for those crimes, but for defending and losing on wrongful arrest/excessive force incidents.

With budgets being busted all over the country, the impetus for criminal justice reform is coming as a way to reduce budget pressures. This can and should be extended to these kinds of issues. Better policing will result in lower costs to all involved.

3
Great White Snark  Jul 23, 2015 • 9:12:39am

re: #1 Aunty Entity Dragon
re: #2 lawhawk

That system died with the emergence of cameras in all our pockets. Well not dead yet but on the way. Make Change Happen. Put another way, Never Look Away.

4
lawhawk  Jul 23, 2015 • 9:39:19am

re: #3 Great White Snark

Garner was caught on tape. Rice was caught on tape. Bland was caught on tape. It didn’t do any of them much good, and indictments are still nearly impossible to come by on excessive force/deadly force incidents with police.

All too frequently they claim justified use of force, and that’s more than sufficient to avoid indictment, let alone trial.

That has to change. The video/audio isn’t sufficient to change police behavior. It requires so much more than that.

5
Great White Snark  Jul 23, 2015 • 11:09:44am

re: #4 lawhawk

Did not do too much good yet. We are slow to change, it’s authority itself being told to change. We have seen several fast settlements, big ones. That’s already a change for the better. So is the push for uniform cams. Millimeters at a time. Taser wants to put a camera on the Taser pistol and have the gun activate the body or gun camera. All HD with audio.

Where would we be without those tapes? Nowhere I think. The images, the video is the lever. The police are the rock.

6
subterraneanhomesickalien  Jul 23, 2015 • 12:26:09pm

I think this may be one of the reasons that trade unions are so distrusted by the class that most needs their representation.

The militancy in protecting the least competent among their ranks.

There are many reasons for the distrust, many reasons that aren’t in any shape or form legitimate. But this is one the reasons that probably is.

7
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 23, 2015 • 7:09:45pm

re: #3 Great White Snark

That system died with the emergence of cameras in all our pockets. Well not dead yet but on the way. Make Change Happen. Put another way, Never Look Away.

Not really. Even in cases of utterly egregious murder in plain view, convicting officers is nearly impossible (the infamous Fullerton beating of Kelly Thomas is instructive)

As long as the victims are usually people of color or otherwise marginalized (trans women, sex workers, homeless), the police have carte blanche to injure and kill.

Law blog Popehat:

What neither side seems to realize is that the system is not reformable. There are multiple classes of people, but it boils down to the connected, and the not connected. Just as in pre-Revolutionary France, there is a very strict class hierarchy, and the very idea that we are equal before the law is a laughable nonsequitr.

Jamal the $5 weed slinger, Shaneekwa the hair braider, and Loudmouth Bob in the 7-11 parking lot are at the bottom of the hierarchy. They can, literally, be killed with impunity … as long as the dash cam isn’t running. And, hell, half the time they can be killed even if the dash cam is running. This isn’t hyperbole, mother-fucker. This is literal. Question me and I’ll throw 400 cites and 20 youtube clips at you.

Next up from Shaneekwa and Loudmouth Bob are us regular peons. We can have our balls squeezed at the airport, our rectums explored at the roadside, our cars searched because the cops got permission from a dog (I owe some Reason intern a drink for that one), our telephones tapped (because terrorism!), our bank accounts investigated (because FinCEN! and no expectation of privacy!).
*****

… to every single bastard at RSA who had a hand in taking the thirty pieces of silver, to the three star generals who routinely screw subordinates and get away with it (even as sergeants are given dishonorable discharges for the same thing), to the MIT cops and Massachusetts prosecutor who drove Aaron Swartz to suicide, to every drug court judge who sends 22 year olds to jail for pot…while high on Quaalude and vodka because she’s got some fucking personal tragedy and no one understands her pain, to every cop who’s anally raped a citizen under color of law, to every other cop who’s intentionally triggered a “drug” dog because the guy looked guilty, to every politician who goes on moral crusades while barebacking prostitutes and money laundering the payments,… to every politician, judge, or editorial-writer who has ever used the phrase “first amendment zone” non-ironically: this is how the system is designed to work.

The system is not fixable because it is not broken. It is working, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, to give the insiders their royal prerogatives, and to shove the regulations, the laws, and the debt up the asses of everyone else.

Burn it to the ground.

Burn it to the ground.

Burn it to the ground.

Merry Christmas.

I don’t agree with everything in the rant, but the premise stands. Ta Nehisi Coates is right about this: Power structures protect themselves. Look at the outcomes over time and figure out what the desired effect iS rather then what is being claimed.

8
Blind Frog Belly White  Jul 24, 2015 • 2:14:13pm

re: #4 lawhawk

Garner was caught on tape. Rice was caught on tape. Bland was caught on tape. It didn’t do any of them much good, and indictments are still nearly impossible to come by on excessive force/deadly force incidents with police.

All too frequently they claim justified use of force, and that’s more than sufficient to avoid indictment, let alone trial.

That has to change. The video/audio isn’t sufficient to change police behavior. It requires so much more than that.

Necessary, but not sufficient.

What I come back to is the shooting of Walter Scott. Take away the video shot by a bystander, and you have another case of ‘he went for my gun, I feared for my life’. It makes me wonder how many times it has happened just like that, or near to that, and nobody was there to record it.

If you want to ignore the problem, then Scott’s murder was just an aberration, one bad cop, doesn’t mean there’s a problem. But we have our black fellow Americans who find themselves at the other end of a police gunbarrel far too often telling us that this is their reality.

9
ThomasLite  Jul 24, 2015 • 3:18:57pm

re: #5 Great White Snark

Did not do too much good yet. We are slow to change, it’s authority itself being told to change. We have seen several fast settlements, big ones. That’s already a change for the better. So is the push for uniform cams. Millimeters at a time. Taser wants to put a camera on the Taser pistol and have the gun activate the body or gun camera. All HD with audio.

Where would we be without those tapes? Nowhere I think. The images, the video is the lever. The police are the rock.

The thing is that, unless I’m missing something, that camera Taser wants to put on their less lethal devices inherently activates way too late in an interaction involving that use of force; as long as a police officer gets to claim that the suspect/victim/whatever was being threatening before he pulled the taser (which of course will then get fired in a second or two) all you’ll be getting is footage of someone getting hit with a stun gun.

It’s helpful to their PR department and doubtless they’ll get to make a nice additional profit off of it; I just doubt it will be of much actual use - it certainly will not show enough context to meet the (from this outsider’s perspective) crazy evidentiary burden required to actually convict a police officer in a wrongful use of force situation in much of the US.

10
The Mulai  Jul 24, 2015 • 5:23:00pm

No doubt a lot of bad cops out there. More so in the rural redneck areas of the U.S. Half the cops out there are revenue collectors for their local government. You always see them in full force in the beginning of each quarter giving tickets out left and right.

The rednecks are short tempered. There probably should be a policy to have them all rotate in and out of desk jobs and street work.

11
Dark_Falcon  Jul 25, 2015 • 7:27:53pm

re: #6 subterraneanhomesickalien

I think this may be one of the reasons that trade unions are so distrusted by the class that most needs their representation.

The militancy in protecting the least competent among their ranks.

There are many reasons for the distrust, many reasons that aren’t in any shape or form legitimate. But this is one the reasons that probably is.

I tend to agree and I agree its a substantial reason middle class people tend to not regard unions as a good thing for themselves: Most middle and, to a modestly lesser extent, upper class people in the US believe in meritocracy. They tend to favor the idea that he or she that is best at the job ought to be promoted, not the person who has spent the most time at the job. And such people, as you say, are offended when a union makes it impossible to fire an incompetent police officer, or if its contract mandates the laying off of a high-grade teacher with less years on the job in favor of a burned-out teacher who is just going through the motions but who has seniority.

But union culture in the United States does have strong traditions, and those traditions are quite resistant to change, and adapting them to middle-class mores would be very hard.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191014After three weeks of meh pictures and invisible progress, we were determined to have something to photograph today. And we were eager to start on the upper shelf. We were close, but not quite there, and we were determined! To ...
DangerMan
20 hours, 5 minutes ago
Views: 159 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Jack Klatt - Highway Lines (Live at Radio Heartland)Jack Klatt performs 'Highway Lines' from his 2019 album, 'It Ain't The Same,' live in the studio of Radio Heartland at The Current.
Thanos
2 days, 21 hours ago
Views: 181 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Brittany Howard Performing ‘13th Century Metal’ Live on KCRW Brittany Howard's solo debut album Jaime puts her powerhouse vocals on full display. It also takes us front and center to her very personal journey of loss, love and self-discovery. We're thrilled to welcome her back to KCRW to ...
Thanos
4 days, 15 hours ago
Views: 305 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
(15) Rodrigo Y Gabriela - Electric Soul (Live on KEXP) kexp.org presents Rodrigo y Gabriela performing "Electric Soul" live in the KEXP gathering space. Recorded July 14, 2019. Host: Stevie ZoomAudio Engineers: Kessiah Gordon & Kevin SuggsAudio Mixer: David MarchantCameras: Jim Beckmann, Alaia D'Alessandro, Luke Knecht & Justin WIlmoreEditor: ...
Thanos
4 days, 15 hours ago
Views: 321 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Fresh Air (Remastered) Quicksilver Messenger Service Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group Fresh Air (Remastered) · Quicksilver Messenger Service Classic Masters ℗ 2001 Capitol Records, LLC Released on: 2007-01-01 Producer: Quicksilver Messenger ServiceStudio Personnel, Mastering Engineer: Robert VosgienComposer: Jesse Oris Farrow Auto-generated by YouTube. ...
Thanos
4 days, 15 hours ago
Views: 335 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Jon Anderson - Song of SevenFrom the 1980 album "Song of Seven".
Thanos
6 days, 21 hours ago
Views: 377 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191006 Today we have to take a few steps back in explanation. The pond is going to have three levels. Sort of an upside down ziggurat. The lowest level, in the center we call ‘the channel’. After the liner is ...
DangerMan
1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 512 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Jon Anderson - Change We MustFrom the 1994 album "Change We Must".
Thanos
1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 580 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
North Mississippi Allstars - ‘Drunk Outdoors’ [Audio Only]From the album 'Up and Rolling,' available October 4, 2019: geni.us
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 551 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Dr. Demento & John Cafiero - What’s in My Bag? Dr. Demento and John Cafiero go shopping at Amoeba Music in Los Angeles. Check out their picks:Cal Stewart - Uncle Josh's Letter from Home (78) Spike Jones - Ugga Ugga Boo Ugga Boo Boo Ugga (78) Johnny Otis Orchestra ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 2 days ago
Views: 874 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 13 • Share to Facebook