Pages

 

Recent Pages by Skip Intro:
Trump Partner in Running for New FBI Building - ABC2News.com Plot to Kill Muslims in Kansas Was Foreseen in Report on Right-Wing Extremism That Politicians Slammed Donald Trump's Candidacy Is a Threat to American Democracy The Man Who Showed Donald Trump How to Exploit Power and Instill Fear Too Good to Be True? Dick Morris Might Join the Trump Campaign

Jump to bottom

7 comments

1
Great White Snark  Nov 19, 2015 • 10:22:04am

Haste makes waste. If one can as easily get on the suspected terror list as easily as the no fly list, and have the same nightmare as an innocent person trying to get off the list, well that’s a factor worth considering with each and every individual right before it’s taken away.

aclu.org

From that radical hotbed the ACLU

Picture this: You arrive at the airport, full of good spirits ahead of a work trip to visit to a client. You wait in line to check in for your flight, but when you reach the counter, you’re told you won’t be able to board. Suddenly you’re surrounded by security guards and hauled off for questioning, with everyone gawking at you. You learn that you’re banned from flying - INDEFINITELY - to, from, or over the United States, even though you’ve never been charged with a crime.

You’re not told why. And there’s very little you can do about it.

That is the reality of the No Fly List, a secret government watch list being challenged by the ACLU and its affiliates in Oregon, Southern California, Northern California, and New Mexico.

And this, again ACLU

We got carried away after 9/11. can we please not repeat that kind of error?

TERROR WATCH LIST COUNTER: A MILLION PLUS

In September 2007, the Inspector General of the Justice Department reported that the Terrorist Screening Center (the FBI-administered organization that consolidates terrorist watch list information in the United States) had over 700,000 names in its database as of April 2007 - and that the list was growing by an average of over 20,000 records per month.1 (See also this new March 2008 report.2 )

And this kind of thing, just ugly.
littlegreenfootballs.com

2
victor27  Nov 19, 2015 • 2:04:33pm

It’s obvious that the watch list needs to be fixed, and that there needs to be a clear, transparent, and accessible way to cull the names of people who should never have been on that list to begin with (Senator Edward Kennedy, anyone?).

But on the other hand, does someone actually have to pull the trigger and kill someone before we determine that maybe letting them have a gun might not be such a good thing? Is that the price we’re being asked to pay for someone else’s right to bear whatever arms they want, for whatever reason they want, wherever they want?

Preventing someone who has a *reasonable suspicion* of being a terrorist from being allowed to arm themselves serves the public interest and protects the general welfare.

If anyone disagrees, ask them if they’re okay with letting Syrians come to this country and buy guns without a background check. Would they be okay with letting known gang members do the same?

3
Boondocksaint  Nov 19, 2015 • 8:41:14pm

The government’s no fly list has been a colossal clusterfuck. Their hearts were in the right place, but the execution has been terrible. Way to many reporters, random Muslims, and people with similar names have ended up on the list. By all means keep weapons away from terrorists, but try to accomplish this goal with more competency than the no fly list.

4
Dark_Falcon  Nov 19, 2015 • 9:42:33pm

re: #2 victor27

I disagree, and so does the Supreme Court. Having found that the right to bear arms is an individual right (D.C. vs. Heller), said right cannot be taken away without due process. “Reasonable suspicion” is not a high enough standard for revoking part of someone’s liberty nor for depriving them of their property, at least not in a court hearing. And the federal government really cannot explain its criteria for putting people on the terrorist watch list without giving Daesh and the militias an intelligence coup. And since the process cannot be explained in open court, using it for a gun purchase background check would not survive a court challenge.

Thus my contention remains what it has been for the past two years: Congressman King’s proposed “Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act” would if enacted constitute a violation of the 2nd, 5th, and 14th Amendments to the US Constitution. For that reason, and because the terrorist watch list cannot be made without exposing US intelligence methods, I oppose the bill.

5
subterraneanhomesickalien  Nov 20, 2015 • 6:10:27am

Why would the NRA willingly deny their clients products to a certain market, even though that market is an extremely unsavory one?

Once you throw out the lie that the NRA is about standing up for the first amendment, and instead just a lobby for Americas various gun manufacturers than it all starts to make sense.

6
victor27  Nov 20, 2015 • 11:04:11am

re: #4 Dark_Falcon

Here’s the definition of reasonable suspicion:

Reasonable suspicion is a standard established by the Supreme Court in a 1968 case in which it ruled that police officers should be allowed stop and briefly detain a person if, based upon the officer’s training and experience, there is reason to believe that the individual is engaging in criminal activity. The officer is given the opportunity to freeze the action by stepping in to investigate. Unlike probable cause that uses a reasonable person standard, reasonable suspicion is based upon the standard of a reasonable police officer.

I disagree with Justice Scalia’s reasoning in support of Heller, but I do take note that he argued that the Second Amendment is not an unlimited right; that longstanding prohibitions on firearms possession and laws imposing conditions and qualifications on commercial sales may continue to stand.

Reasonable suspicion is absolutely a high enough standard to survive a court hearing.

Regarding HR1076, the bill includes a mechanism for a petitioner to challenge a determination against them, and to have the court review the Attorney General’s evidence. Due process is satisfied.

7
Dark_Falcon  Nov 20, 2015 • 8:44:42pm

re: #6 victor27

I disagree. In my mind law enforcement should have to show a preponderance of the evidence at the least before someone is to be disarmed. I’m aware in most cases law enforcement will not be able to meet that burden, but that’s how I want it. Government should only be able to react before someone has broken the law when there is some solid evidence that said person is going to do something bad or has serious mental issues.

Moreover, reasonable suspicion in a case of a cop on the street frisking someone is one thing; Taking substantial amounts of their property is something else. And the problem with any court mechanism is that it normally creates a very real wealth barrier to using it, especially in cases with any complexity. As a practical matter, a person cannot petition the court himself in this sort of case, they need to hire a lawyer and lawyers are expensive in cases where they cannot work on contingency.

A person whose gun collection was confiscated as a result of a case of mistaken identity might find she cannot get it back because she cannot afford to pay a law firm the $15,000 dollars the court case will run. And situations like that are ripe for abuse, as Black Lives Matter’s members have explained many a time. What’s to stop the Houston office of the ATF from claiming a member of black-oriented open carry group is a terrorist when they need to “take guns off the street” in order to make their stats for the year look good? Unless the person subjected to the process can find a lawyer willing to take the case pro-bono, he’s out of luck unless he’s in the top 20-25% of incomes.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 118 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 279 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1